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WoodyWanKenobi
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D-day landings questions and discussion Tue, 08 October 2019 05:15
HI all
a group of 6 of us just completed the British National beaches 3 map game. Allies won 41-36

Can anyone help with these questions please before we tackle a 5 map game?

1. Armour supported infantry move like infantry, therefore that means they can 2 move up cliffs and they can also move into empty bunkers?? Seems odd but appreciate confirmation. Has anyone house ruled this?

2. There is a river that sits in a beach tile on Juno beach adjacent to an existing bridge center section. Can a Hobart funny place a bridge on this to gain the 2 victory medals for bridging La Seulles river??

3. Example. 3 hexes in a row OCEAN, COASTLINE, BEACH.
A Landing craft (LC) starting in this ocean hex could move 1 to the coastline and the unit unloads, but the unit has to stop there and cannot battle. The LC then returns to a vacant LC starting hex.
However, a normal armour unit starting in the same ocean hex can move 1 to the coastline then move again onto the beach AND battle???
Therefore, armour in the ocean is better than armour in a LC.

4. Beach control medals, bridge control medals, town control medals. Are any of them turn based or is it once controlled immediately scored? Anyone house ruled this to give axis a chance of grabbing them back same turn?

Thanks in advance
      
Zalamence
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Re:D-day landings questions and discussion Tue, 08 October 2019 09:49
First of all, welcome to the forum!

Excellent questions, I do not know the answers, but I would like to know. I will write my thoughts anyway.

1. Thematically, I could understand movement into bunkers - the supporting elements can stay outside the buildings. Moving up a cliff/bluff isn't as easy to explain. Rules-wise it makes sense to think they are just like any other infantry, since it's simpler.

2. This is really strange and it comes up each time I play Juno. Nothing seems to imply you would not get the medals, but the objective itself seems trivial. That's why I play it so that the bridge must be built upstream to the existing bridge.

3. You are correct.

4. The rulebook is not very clear: on p. 8, there is a reminder to check (Turn Start) medals for the control of towns and beaches, but the scenarios themselves do not list these objectives as (Turn Start). Pointe-du-hoc is clearly categorized as (Turn Start), however.

To give Axis a better chance of winning (and overall making the game a bit longer and more fun), I have played the objectives differently in my recent games. I award no extra medal for taking out big guns (it's easy to do with Recon-1 [Off-map artillery] anyway) and Allies get no medals for beach control. Axis can still get the medals for staying in control, although it is difficult.
      
sam1812
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Re:D-day landings questions and discussion Wed, 09 October 2019 05:42
3. It's true that a regular tank in the water has the advantage of moving 2 hexes onto the beach and battle immediately. However, a tank in a Landing Craft has a different advantage: The mobility of being able to move 2 hexes per turn in the water. You get much more control over where to land the unit.

4. The Town Control and Beach Control medals are both Temporary objectives. The rules and scenarios don't say anything about them being Turn Start, so I wouldn't play them that way. As a practical matter, there's so much going on in DDL, it's very helpful to recount the medals at the start of each turn.
      
Jeronimon
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Re:D-day landings questions and discussion Thu, 10 October 2019 09:01

1. Armour supported infantry move like infantry, therefore that means they can 2 move up cliffs and they can also move into empty bunkers?? Seems odd but appreciate confirmation. Has anyone house ruled this?
I would say no house rule necessary, the rules clearly state: It is treated like Infantry for all purposes. So moving in Bunkers would be no problem. For the purists, they probably parked the vehicle out back while enjoying the protection of concrete. Smile

2. There is a river that sits in a beach tile on Juno beach adjacent to an existing bridge center section. Can a Hobart funny place a bridge on this to gain the 2 victory medals for bridging La Seulles river??
In the rules as is, yes this would get you the two medals. But in almost all the moving scenarios your Hobart funny would be able to get to a more upstream hex and lay a more profitable bridge. (Although studying the map I could find scenarios where it would be profitable to place your bridge there on the beach. Razz ) Or just house rule it like stated above.

3. Example. 3 hexes in a row OCEAN, COASTLINE, BEACH.
A Landing craft (LC) starting in this ocean hex could move 1 to the coastline and the unit unloads, but the unit has to stop there and cannot battle. The LC then returns to a vacant LC starting hex.
However, a normal armour unit starting in the same ocean hex can move 1 to the coastline then move again onto the beach AND battle???
Therefore, armour in the ocean is better than armour in a LC.
Your analysis is correct. Note however that no landing craft is in the Ocean hex of your example at the beginning of the game. They all have at least one Ocean hex between them and the beach. It would take a normal tank two moves also to get to the beach and the Landing raft one is one hex closer tot the enemy the turn before they fight so another disadvantage. Advantages: like Sam said more flexibility in movement "laterally/horizontally" to move another part of the beach and "vertivcally" because if noon was on a LC and two (or more units would be behind each other only the first "Ocean" unit could land. If the back "ocean" unit is on an LC they both can reach the beach this turn.

4. Beach control medals, bridge control medals, town control medals. Are any of them turn based or is it once controlled immediately scored? Anyone house ruled this to give axis a chance of grabbing them back same turn?
In the rules the ones you mention are all just temporary. (That plays fine in my opinion). Also if you made them turn start the Germans would not be able to grab them back the same turn, they would only be awarded the medal(s) on the beginning of their next turn.

Hope this helps you out a bit. Smile

Edit: we have made particularly medals for beach control, town control 3 towns and town control 5 towns, which makes it much easier to track the medals.

[Updated on: Thu, 10 October 2019 09:10]

      
Zalamence
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Re:D-day landings questions and discussion Thu, 10 October 2019 09:28
sam1812 wrote on Wed, 09 October 2019 06:42

4. The Town Control and Beach Control medals are both Temporary objectives. The rules and scenarios don't say anything about them being Turn Start, so I wouldn't play them that way.


Like I wrote above, there is this odd thing:

p.8 section V. CONDITIONS OF VICTORY

When determining Victory, remember to check for (Turn Start) Medals gained for the control of Towns and Beaches depending on the scenario.


https://ncdn1.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_dd_rules_e n.pdf

I don't understand why they would specify control for Towns and Beaches if those are the objectives that are NOT Turn Start. However, that one line would not convince me that the control for Towns and Beaches must be a Turn Start objective. It is just confusing.
      
sam1812
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Re:D-day landings questions and discussion Thu, 10 October 2019 15:05
Jeronimon wrote on Thu, 10 October 2019 03:01

1. Armour supported infantry move like infantry, therefore that means they can 2 move up cliffs and they can also move into empty bunkers?? Seems odd but appreciate confirmation. Has anyone house ruled this?
I would say no house rule necessary, the rules clearly state: It is treated like Infantry for all purposes. So moving in Bunkers would be no problem. For the purists, they probably parked the vehicle out back while enjoying the protection of concrete. Smile

You have to assume that the bunker or bunkers don't occupy the entire hex, so there is room to put tanks in between. I think there was a ruling confirming that at some point. There definitely have been other precedents that used similar logic. Note that moving like infantry would also mean that Supported Infantry can move onto Hedgehogs.

Zalamence: I think the key phrase here is, "depending on the scenario." The scenarios don't say they're Turn Start. I believe there was a DDL rules/questions/FAQ thread when the expansion came out in 2014. Somebody could double-check there.
      
Zalamence
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Re:D-day landings questions and discussion Thu, 10 October 2019 19:58
You were right, there is/was a thread. It's very short, sadly.

https://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=315093#msg_315093
rasmussen81 wrote on Tue, 11 November 2014 21:38

Q. On Utah Beach, can a LC land directly on Grandcamp which is a Town hex?
A. No

Q. In Equipment Pack it is explained that LC are treated like Armor for all purposes. Why is there such a precision? Does this mean that I can order LC with a "Armor Assault" card for instance?
A. Landing Craft cannot be ordered by the “Armor Assault” command card. The chief reason for Landing Craft being treated as Armor for all purposes is to restrict the Landing Craft movement onto a beach hex with a bunker or hedgehog.

Q. Can a Landing Craft carrying Infantry remove wire when it lands since it is treated like Armor for all purposes?
A. No. Landing Craft can move onto a beach / shore / coastline with wire and the Landing Craft is automatically removed and the Infantry unit is automatically unloaded, but the Wire is not removed.

Q. Can an on the move be used to order a Landing Craft?
A. Yes

Q. May Supported Infantry enter a bunker?
A. Yes
      
    
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