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chrboesen
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Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Fri, 27 April 2018 22:27
Can you play out of ammo combat card on a fixed unit, such as an artillery in a bunker? If you can play out of ammo what happens since the unit can't move to the baseline? Is the unit eliminated? Or does the unit just loose it's chance to fire that turn?
      
Clexton27
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Fri, 27 April 2018 23:09
https://ncdn.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_winter_8.jpg

chrboesen wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 16:27

Can you play out of ammo combat card on a fixed unit, such as an artillery in a bunker? If you can play out of ammo what happens since the unit can't move to the baseline? Is the unit eliminated? Or does the unit just loose it's chance to fire that turn?


Certainly you cannot MOVE the artillery in the movement phase. However, why can't you remove the artillery to the baseline? Forced to fall back. Often times in actual battle situations artillery was moved from fixed locations to other more suitable terrain or for better positioning. I would just follow the card as stated and move the artillery to the baseline. Now it not only loses its opportunity to fire, it loses future firepower since it is more distant from enemy units, and it loses the protection of the bunker as well. Triple play! Congrats.

Very Happy

[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2018 23:17]

      
Antoi
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Fri, 27 April 2018 23:17
The base rules say:
Artillery units that start on a Bunker hex may not move from the hex.

In FAQ says somewhere something about ignoring basic rules if you attack (for example, a star hits a snip when hit by an airpower)
Don't know this also counts for this card.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sat, 28 April 2018 00:00
I would have to agree that artillery in a bunker stays in the bunker. No flags are being rolled so it wouldn't lose any figures but would lose the chance to attack.

But that's just me.
      
Clexton27
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sat, 28 April 2018 00:03
If the Combat Cards are meant to MODIFY the base rules of a scenario. Causing a unit to Fall Back is simply a part of that modification.

And that's MHO. Rolling Eyes Very Happy Very Happy

[Updated on: Sat, 28 April 2018 00:14]

      
sam1812
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sat, 28 April 2018 06:52
Tough question. A good case can be made for either side.

If an Out Of Ammo unit that's directly in front of two other units can be forced to move back to the baseline ... and an Out Of Ammo unit could move past an impassable river to the baseline, then I'd obey the text on the card and move the artillery back.
      
JJAZ
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sat, 28 April 2018 10:39
Isn't the card text not always trumping any other rule the most simple answer.
Rolling Eyes
      
chrboesen
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 30 April 2018 20:46
Thanks for all the feedback!
      
RBorg
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Wed, 02 May 2018 04:47
I am not sure what a fixed unit means in this question?

What does the card state?
Follow the instructions on the card and you will be playing as the card reads.

Hey, you maybe asking, what if the artillery unit is already on its baseline hex and in sandbags?
Again, what does the card state should be happening?
Follow the instructions on the card and you will be playing as the card reads. Move the artillery unit to a vacant baseline hex. I would assume that this is a new baseline hex on the Artillery unit's baseline, but that is just my take.

Yep. I understand this Artillery unit really did not fall back, but I guess its ammo was in a new location (a different location) on its baseline.

Richard Borg


      
Quit2
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Wed, 02 May 2018 09:41
A fixed unit means an artillery in a bunker. Those cannot move. (the bunker was built around the artillery)

You have different rules here that are relevant:

- An artillery in a bunker can't move.
- Do what the card says, and it says the unit "falls back"
- Can't trumps can (applies in many games, I don't know about Memoir)

My solution: don't play against players who play out of ammo on an artillery in a bunker. Don't do it yourself either.
      
Clexton27
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Wed, 02 May 2018 13:40
RBorg wrote on Tue, 01 May 2018 22:47

I am not sure what a fixed unit means in this question?

What does the card state?
Follow the instructions on the card and you will be playing as the card reads.

Hey, you maybe asking, what if the artillery unit is already on its baseline hex and in sandbags?
Again, what does the card state should be happening?
Follow the instructions on the card and you will be playing as the card reads. Move the artillery unit to a vacant baseline hex. I would assume that this is a new baseline hex on the Artillery unit's baseline, but that is just my take.

Yep. I understand this Artillery unit really did not fall back, but I guess its ammo was in a new location (a different location) on its baseline.

Richard Borg





Thanks Richard for your input and intent.

[Updated on: Wed, 02 May 2018 20:47]

      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sat, 15 September 2018 16:38
I played with the winter deck and the exact question Mr. Borg referred in his post arose. Can you confirm these questions?

Here is my 2 part question:

Part 1 - A unit is already in a baseline hex. If an out of ammo card is played against it does it need to move to another baseline hex or does it need to stay in the same hex, or can the player choose which baseline hex is the unit going to?

Arguments for mandatory moving to another baseline hex: if the check for vacant hexes is performed before removing the unit, then the hex the unit is in is not vacant - it is being occupied by itself. Therefore, following the card requires to move the unit to a vacant hex, meaning moving the unit to a different baseline hex.

Arguments for the ability of the player to choose: If the the check for vacant hexes is performed after removing the unit of the board, then the player can place it in the same hex, or in a different hex.

Arguments for the mandatory stay in place: The unit is in the baseline already and thus no check for vacant hexes is performed. However this seems contrary to the spirit of the card of falling back.


Part 2 - The unit had a sandbag and a camo token. What happens to those?

Arguments for their removal: if the unit is removed of the board and put in again (see first two options of the previous questions), even if in the same hex (option 2 of the previous questions), then it will lose the sandbags and the camo.

Arguments for their conservation: if the unit is not removed from the board to check for vacant hexes (see option 3 of the previous question), then the unit didn't move at all. Thus it will retain both the sandbag and the camo.

Mr Borg suggested the unit must move to a new baseline hex (option 1 of first question) and thus lose both camo and sandbags (option 1 of second question). Is that correct?


Edit:
Part 3 - Supposing the answer of Mr. Borg. What if the baseline hex the unit is in is the only without impassable terrain (or other hexes are all occupied with units), does the unit move to the next line of hexes? In this case it will be the opposite of a fall back - more like a fall forward. This is despite the fact that after having felt forward there will be a vacant baseline hex...

[Updated on: Sat, 15 September 2018 17:39]

      
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sat, 15 September 2018 20:36
What if the baseline row of hexes is in the ocean? We cannot retreat or fall back into the ocean.
      
sam1812
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sun, 16 September 2018 03:30
There has been an official ruling that if no eligible hex exists on the baseline, the unit moves to an eligible hex in the next row.

As for a unit already on the back line, for this year's WBC tournament, I made a GM's ruling that since such a unit was unable to "fall back," so therefore Out Of Ammo was not able to be played against it. I don't know whether my ruling was correct, but it was consistent with the wording of the card, and I couldn't find any official rulings that contradicted it.

In nearly all cases, I've observed, the literal wording of a rule or a card is the way to play it, even if it seems unrealistic.
      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sun, 16 September 2018 12:50
Quote:

I couldn't find any official rulings that contradicted it


Did you take into account Mr. Borg answer in this thread?

Quote:

what if the artillery unit is already on its baseline hex and in sandbags?
(...)
Move the artillery unit to a vacant baseline hex. I would assume that this is a new baseline hex on the Artillery unit's baseline, but that is just my take. Yep. I understand this Artillery unit really did not fall back, but I guess its ammo was in a new location (a different location) on its baseline.


I asked two questions that seemed to be solved by this ruling, but I wanted the experts that frequent this forum to confirm. This ruling, however leads to a really strange situation, as I describe in my third question:

Quote:

What if the baseline hex the unit is in is the only without impassable terrain (or other hexes are all occupied with units), does the unit move to the next line of hexes? In this case it will be the opposite of a fall back - more like a fall forward. This is despite the fact that after having felt forward there will be a vacant baseline hex...

[Updated on: Sun, 16 September 2018 12:51]

      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Sun, 16 September 2018 12:59
Quote:

What if the baseline row of hexes is in the ocean? We cannot retreat or fall back into the ocean.


1 - There is no combat deck for beach landings.

2 - According to the FAQ:

Quote:

Q. What happens if I play Out of Ammo and there are no baseline hexes for my opponent to move his unit back to?
A. The unit is placed in an empty hex in the next forward row of hexes.


3 - I see no problem in putting the unit back in the ocean hex. It is still a vacant hex of not impassable terrain. There is a thread in the BGG that states out of ammo is not a retreat - you don't need to have a valid path to your baseline as if you were retreating. You just take the unit out of the map and spawn it in the baseline
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/16565692#16565692
However the thread does not source any rules or rulings, so take it with a pinch of salt.
      
sam1812
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 17 September 2018 05:57
Divinus wrote on Sun, 16 September 2018 06:50

Quote:

I couldn't find any official rulings that contradicted it


Did you take into account Mr. Borg answer in this thread?
I don't think I noticed this thread in my research, but his advice to interpret the card or the rule literally is what I always do, because that is usually the correct answer. Since a unit on the back row can't "fall back," I ruled that Out of Ammo couldn't apply to a unit on the back row.

As it happens, this year's WBC tournament (for which I made my GM rulings) didn't involve any bunkers or immobile units, so the possibility of artillery in a bunker wasn't an issue.

There is an official ruling that Combat cards trump standard rules, and so if an artillery is in a bunker and the Combat card says to "fall back" (not "retreat"), then by golly, I'd say it falls back. Get an infantry into that bunker, quick!
Quote:

what if the artillery unit is already on its baseline hex and in sandbags?

Sandbags are not relevant to this card. A unit in sandbags would be treated just like a unit without sandbags.

If I'm wrong and the card can be played against a back-line unit, then I believe it would stay put and be prevented from battling. I don't think it would get to move to a more advantageous hex.
Quote:

1 - There is no combat deck for beach landings.

No, there isn't. But there are Desert scenario (Escape Via the Coastal Road) and Jungle scenarios (Guam Landings) that include Ocean hexes.

[Updated on: Mon, 17 September 2018 06:12]

      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 17 September 2018 11:06
Rolling Eyes
Sam, with all respect, but you seem to have misread Mr. Borg post in this thread which is causing an issue of miscommunication.

This is Mr. Borg post, that I had quoted before:
Quote:

what if the artillery unit is already on its baseline hex and in sandbags?
(...)
Move the artillery unit to a vacant baseline hex. I would assume that this is a new baseline hex on the Artillery unit's baseline, but that is just my take. Yep. I understand this Artillery unit really did not fall back, but I guess its ammo was in a new location (a different location) on its baseline.


This contradicts your ruling, and all my posts were made assuming you had read this, which is not the case since in your last post you said:
Quote:

his advice to interpret the card or the rule literally is what I always do, because that is usually the correct answer. Since a unit on the back row can't "fall back," I ruled that Out of Ammo couldn't apply to a unit on the back row.
.

It is curious that both you and Mr.Borg agree that one should interpret cards literally to solve problems but your literal interpretations resulted in contrary outcomes. Perhaps saying that one ought to interpret something literally to solve questions is just a vague answer that doesn't accomplish much, as this example demonstrates.

With that said I recommend you reread the thread starting with my post, since it was the new development (see dates of posts), in order for us to be on the same page when discussing this. I don't want to come across as rude, but since I am not a native English I have some difficulty in controlling the tone of my writing. I am writing this post with the best of intentions.


Quote:

Sandbags are not relevant to this card. A unit in sandbags would be treated just like a unit without sandbags.

If I'm wrong and the card can be played against a back-line unit, then I believe it would stay put and be prevented from battling. I don't think it would get to move to a more advantageous hex.


After you re-read the thread you will see that sandbags and camo are indeed relevant when the out of ammo card is played against a unit in a base line hex. According to Mr. Borg the unit has to move to another baseline hex, thus losing both the sandbag and the camo, which again is different from your guess (it was also different from mine). You can see all alternatives in my first post in the thread and which one Mr. Borg chose.

-------

Quote:

No, there isn't. But there are Desert scenario (Escape Via the Coastal Road) and Jungle scenarios (Guam Landings) that include Ocean hexes.


You are correct. That is why I presented 3 points on my answer. The point of a landing combat deck not existing eliminates a lot of potential situations were interactions between ocean hexes and the out of ammo card would occur. But in the situations they still happen, like those you listed, the other two points provide the remaining information needed to answer the questions. I see no reason a unit cannot be put on the ocean/coastline hex, therefore an out of ammo card in those scenarios, if played in the relevant section, will put the unit in the ocean/coastline hex.

-------

Edit: Now that things are cleared, I think I should reiterate my initial question, that I wish to discuss:
Quote:

What if the baseline hex the unit is in is the only without impassable terrain (or other hexes are all occupied with units), does the unit move to the next line of hexes? In this case it will be the opposite of a fall back - more like a fall forward. This is despite the fact that after having felt forward there will be a vacant baseline hex...

[Updated on: Mon, 17 September 2018 11:10]

      
Zalamence
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 17 September 2018 19:11
You have a good question which I unfortunately don't know how to answer. I can say that I would play this like Out of Ammo just forced the unit to not battle. (No move, no other effects like losing sandbags)
In fact, if I could decide, this card could not even be played against a unit that cannot retreat. Alas...

I can't remember the exact ruling with Camo, but shouldn't the unit that tries to attack lose its Camo regardless of what reactive cards (like Ambush or Out of Ammo) are played?
      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 17 September 2018 19:27
Quote:

but shouldn't the unit that tries to attack lose its Camo regardless of what reactive cards (like Ambush or Out of Ammo) are played?


With an ambush card the camo will certainly disappear. Either you get flags rolled against you, or your unit is eliminated, or you perform an attack.

However if someone used an out of ammo against you and you didn't move previously as to retain the camo, then you will not be attacking either due to the out of ammo effect. If you lose the camo it is because you need to apply some effect from the out of ammo card, not because you attacked (because you didn't). In any case, this doesn't matter much because it seems Mr. Borg ruled it that one must move the unit that is in the baseline when an out of camo card is played, so it will lose its camo and sandbags anyway. I just didn't get anyone yet to confirm I am reading Mr. Borg correctly, and being new here I would appreciate the help.
      
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 17 September 2018 20:49
Divinus wrote on Mon, 17 September 2018 02:06

What if the baseline hex the unit is in is the only without impassable terrain (or other hexes are all occupied with units), does the unit move to the next line of hexes? In this case it will be the opposite of a fall back - more like a fall forward. This is despite the fact that after having felt forward there will be a vacant baseline hex...


We don't address the "what if?" situations unless there is an official scenario where this could happen. We did for many years, but it lead to more questions as people came up with lots of unusual situations that don't happen. I can't think of any scenarios where this would be true, but I might be missing one.
      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 17 September 2018 22:40
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 17 September 2018 19:49

Divinus wrote on Mon, 17 September 2018 02:06

What if the baseline hex the unit is in is the only without impassable terrain (or other hexes are all occupied with units), does the unit move to the next line of hexes? In this case it will be the opposite of a fall back - more like a fall forward. This is despite the fact that after having felt forward there will be a vacant baseline hex...


We don't address the "what if?" situations unless there is an official scenario where this could happen. We did for many years, but it lead to more questions as people came up with lots of unusual situations that don't happen. I can't think of any scenarios where this would be true, but I might be missing one.



I understand. And I also recognize it is highly unlikely to happen. However I believe it is possible to happen in official scenarios due to the following reasons combined:

1. All combat decks have the out of ammo card.

2. It is not unusual for scenarios to start with the baseline hexes full of troops in one section (sometimes one row, sometimes two rows). If there is a unit in a hex it is not vacant.

3. If one of those is an artillery, it is entirely possible that the opponent plays an out of ammo and the situation arises. This might be beneficial if it forces the artillery forward to become exposed (losing any protection it might have, be it be inside a bunker or sandbags). So the player must know what will happen in order to decide if it is going to use the card or not.
      
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Mon, 17 September 2018 23:59
Which scenario are you looking at?
      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Tue, 18 September 2018 01:27
Here are 10 scenarios with the baseline of hexes fully occupied at least in one section:

Red Barricades Factory
Gates of Moscow
Breakout to Lysanka
Tell el Eisa
Battle of Lingevres
Fall of Gondar
Into the Cauldron
Mabatang
The Meat Grinder
Bloody Ridge

They are not that hard to find, so in a few minutes I collected those. I'm sure there are others but I will not check every scenario to list them all.

[Updated on: Tue, 18 September 2018 01:29]

      
sam1812
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Tue, 18 September 2018 08:19
.
If the unit battles, it loses its Camouflage. You play Out Of Ammo on a unit that has declared a battle, so I'd rule that it loses its Camo even if it doesn't move.

If the unit moves, it loses its sandbags.

As for baseline units, Richard wrote,
Quote:

Follow the instructions on the card and you will be playing as the card reads. Move the artillery unit to a vacant baseline hex. I would assume that this is a new baseline hex on the Artillery unit's baseline, but that is just my take.

Yep. I understand this Artillery unit really did not fall back, but I guess its ammo was in a new location (a different location) on its baseline.

Often, Richard has given official rulings. This sounds more like an opinion than a ruling. He even acknowledges, after telling us to interpret the card literally, that he's saying something that literally contradicts the language on the card. I'm not sure whether there's any one perfect solution to the situation you outlined.
      
Clexton27
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Tue, 18 September 2018 13:27
The main way to maintain the fun and not end up in disputes during a game is simply to have a conversation with your mates before you play and agree as to how you will play this out. And if you play both sides of the scenario to apply the rules the same in both games.
I think the intent of the card is to disrupt the attacking unit. The general effect is to force the unit to move back and interrupt its battle. So moving to the baseline is optimal, but moving the unit out of its current position if it is already on the baseline seems reasonable too.
      
Divinus
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Tue, 18 September 2018 14:19
sam1812 wrote on Tue, 18 September 2018 07:19

.
If the unit battles, it loses its Camouflage. You play Out Of Ammo on a unit that has declared a battle, so I'd rule that it loses its Camo even if it doesn't move.

If the unit moves, it loses its sandbags.

As for baseline units, Richard wrote,
Quote:

Follow the instructions on the card and you will be playing as the card reads. Move the artillery unit to a vacant baseline hex. I would assume that this is a new baseline hex on the Artillery unit's baseline, but that is just my take.

Yep. I understand this Artillery unit really did not fall back, but I guess its ammo was in a new location (a different location) on its baseline.

Often, Richard has given official rulings. This sounds more like an opinion than a ruling. He even acknowledges, after telling us to interpret the card literally, that he's saying something that literally contradicts the language on the card. I'm not sure whether there's any one perfect solution to the situation you outlined.


Thank you very much Sam. That was exactly what i was looking for. People with authority in the game like I recognize in yourself helping make sense of Mr. Borg post.
I understand that Mr. Borg being the creator of the game his post is at least a quasi-ruling, but because I don't know past instances of how we should take his posts your contribution has helped me. If I am interpreting you correctly, you are saying that we should not take his post as an official ruling and that rules are not settled on the matter, correct?

Clexton27 wrote on Tue, 18 September 2018 12:27

The main way to maintain the fun and not end up in disputes during a game is simply to have a conversation with your mates before you play and agree as to how you will play this out. And if you play both sides of the scenario to apply the rules the same in both games.



That is exactly what I do. As long as me and my opponent play by the same rules, when we switch sides the match is fair. But my question stemmed not from a dispute with my opponent, but from my love and curiosity of M44 strategy. Having things cleared out will allow me to play without the need to make rules myself (something I feel somewhat uncomfortable with).
      
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Tue, 18 September 2018 14:45
These are all the questions, that I found, that are in need of clarifications or rulings regarding the out of ammo card:


1 - Fixed Units (Artillery/armor in sanbags/bunkers) that cannot move during the game.

1A - Out of ammo card cannot be played against the unit. Reason: Because it cannot move and thus fall back.
1B - Out of ammo card can be played but the unit will not move. Reason: It can cancel the attack of the unit, but since the unit is fixed it will not go to another place seeking ammo, it will need the ammo to be brought to its place next turn.
1C - Out of ammo card can be played and the unit will move to the baseline. Reason: The card trumps the effect of the unit being fixed or dug-in.


2 - Units without a clear retreat path to the baseline.

2A - The unit will retreat as much as it can to the baseline, as if it was taking the max amount of flags without casualties. If it encounters impassable terrain or other units it will not move further into the baseline direction. Reason: Falling back is considered a retreat.
2B - The unit will be put in the baseline regardless if there is a valid retreat path. Reason: Falling back and retreating are different concepts. Falling back means taking the unit out of the map and spawning it in the baseline, while retreating requires a valid path of contiguous hexes.

3 - Units in the baseline.

3A - Out of ammo card cannot be played against the unit. Reason: Because it cannot fall back anymore.
3B - Out of ammo card can be played and the unit must move to a different baseline hex. Reason: if the check for vacant hexes is performed before removing the unit, then the hex the unit is in is not vacant - it is being occupied by itself. Therefore, following the card requires to move the unit to a vacant hex, meaning moving the unit to a different baseline hex.
3C - Out of ammo card can be played and the unit can move to a different baseline hex or not - player's choice. Reason: If the the check for vacant hexes is performed after removing the unit of the board, then the player can place it in the same hex, or in a different hex.
3D - Out of ammo card can be played but the unit must stay in the same hex. Reason: The check for vacant hexes doesn't obtain because the unit is already in a baseline hex. Therefore the card will only cancel its attack.


3.1 - Units in the baseline with camo.

3.1A - The camo is lost. Reasons: 3A, 3B, if 3C even if it stays in the same hex because it was taken out of board, if 3D then the unit tried to attack but made too much noise.
3.1B - The camo is not lost. Reasons: If 3C and the unit stays in the same hex taking out of board doesn't impact camo, if 3D the unit being unable to attack means it will not made noise and thus preserved its camouflage.


3.2 - Units in the baseline with sandbags.

3.2A - The sandbag is lost. Reasons: 3B, 3C even if stays in the same hex because it was taken out of board.
3.2B - The sandbag is not lost. Reasons: 3A, 3C and the unit stays in the same hex taking out of board doesn't impact sandbags, 3D.


3.3 - Units in the baseline hex and the baseline hex row is fully not vacant (other units and/or impassable terrain).

3.3A - The unit moves to the next forward baseline row where there is a vacant hex. Reasons: If 3B, or 3C + the player chooses to move. This enforces the FAQ rule when the baseline of hexes is full the unit moves to the next forward row where there is a vacant hex.
3.3B - The unit stays in place. Reasons: 3A, 3D, 3C + the players chooses not to move. If 3B, or 3C + player chooses to move then an exception to the FAQ ruling needs to be made - the justification being that the unit can never fall forward because it is against the spirit of the card.


Now, how do we go about getting rulings/clarifications for those questions?

[Updated on: Tue, 18 September 2018 20:54]

      
Zalamence
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Tue, 18 September 2018 15:04
I'm derailing the thread talking about Camo, sorry for that.

Above, Sam said that Camo is lost if the unit declares battle. The rules are a bit vague, saying that Camo is lost when the unit battles - which could mean Camo is lost only when dice are rolled.

So here's an entry for clarifications:

Q. I attack with my camouflaged unit. Opponent plays Pull Back. I lose the ability to battle this turn, but is the camouflage token removed?
      
sam1812
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Tue, 18 September 2018 15:20
Ordinarily, Richard has given specific answers that we consider highly official rulings. I think this is the first time he's said it was just his "take" on something.

And I've given my interpretations, which certainly are not official (except for the one tournament I was running).
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Wed, 19 September 2018 18:30
At this point there is no official ruling. My guess would be that this hasn't come up very often (if ever) because this is a mid-game card to stop a heavy attack that might eliminate a weak unit.

Yes, someone could play it on the first or second turn when the whole baseline is still fully occupied but that would be (IMHO) a waste of a powerful card.

Like others have said, until you have an answer from Richard about this just agree before the battle on how you'll handle the situation for the outside time someone plays it at the start of the game.
      
player3584445
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Re:Out of Ammo and a fixed unit Fri, 13 November 2020 22:53
Artillery in a bunker represents an emplaced gun and therefore would not be moved, but merely lose it's attack (because it is "Out of Ammo"}. A unit on the baseline would not be moved because it is already on the baseline, the card does not say "Retreat", nor is it a flag, so the unit would not lose any figures. Since it did not move, it would retain it's sandbags and camo and merely lose it's attack. Just my opinion, but this seems most logical to me.
      
    
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