Heat: Pedal to the Metal Heat: Pedal to the Metal

Forums

Search
Forums » Memoir '44 - English » Big Guns question
Show: Today's Posts 
  
AuthorTopic
Major Duncan
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 278
Registered:
July 2004
Big Guns question Thu, 04 August 2022 18:46
Playing 'Defensive Battle of Sasselie'.

A German inf unit reduced to 2 figures occupies the church, and their art has zeroed in on a Soviet tank unit. If I play Attack 3 Centre, can I move the inf out of the church and move a full strength inf unit in, and then fire my art with the extra dice, or would I lose Big Gun status as soon as the unit left the church, along with the Zeroed in counter?
      
sam1812
Senior Member
Brigadier General

User Pages
Posts: 3052
Registered:
August 2006
Re:Big Guns question Fri, 05 August 2022 16:47
The Big Gun is zeroed in on the unit on the hex. If the unit moves, the gun is no longer zeroed in on the hex.
      
Zalamence
Senior Member
Mayor

User Pages
Posts: 251
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Big Guns question Sat, 06 August 2022 10:41
I think the question is more about forward spotting (actions-4) rather than ordinary Big Guns.

https://ncdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_action_4.jpg

So, can an artillery unit (non-Big Gun) retain Zeroed-in capabilities even after the player has vacated scenario-specific hexes?

Rules as written, the cross-hair marker stays on the hex until the unit moves or is eliminated.

https://ncdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_troop_3.jpg

However, this leads to a situation where the artillery can be Zeroed-in to a unit that is beyond its normal range. Rules would then imply your unit can be Zeroed-in on some opponent unit, but you can't attack it if forward spotting conditions aren't met. Sounds wrong.

Considering that Zeroed-in is also lost when the Big Guns move, I would play so that the cross-hair token is removed immediately when the forward spotting hexes are vacated and the artillery are not treated as Big Guns. Thematically it seems OK as well: spotters are moving out and no longer relay information for the added bonus effect.

To give an answer to Major Duncan's question, in my opinion, the status is lost (along with the cross-hair token) as soon as the unit left the church.
      
Major Duncan
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 278
Registered:
July 2004
Re:Big Guns question Sat, 06 August 2022 20:26
Yeah, I think you are right. Although the Art would regain Big Gun status when the new inf unit entered the church, the zeroed in counter would have been lost as soon as the first inf unit left the church.
      
player3584445
Senior Member
Second Lieutenant

User Pages
Posts: 104
Registered:
October 2018
Re:Big Guns question Wed, 17 August 2022 18:41
I disagree. If the forward observer relayed the coordinates to the artillery, then the artillery remains zeroed in until the artillery moves or the target moves. They are already zeroed in, so it makes no difference if the forward observer moves or not.
      
Clexton27
Senior Member
Brigadier General

User Pages
Posts: 3646
Registered:
February 2007
Re:Big Guns question Wed, 17 August 2022 21:51
player3584445 wrote on Wed, 17 August 2022 12:41

I disagree. If the forward observer relayed the coordinates to the artillery, then the artillery remains zeroed in until the artillery moves or the target moves. They are already zeroed in, so it makes no difference if the forward observer moves or not.

You may disagree but the card specifically says that when using the FORWARD SPOTTING rules, the artillery units you have can be used as Big Guns. And the Big Gun rule specifically says that until a unit is moved or destroyed a Big Gun gets +1 die. Since the unit is moving out of the hex, the Big Gun advantage is lost. It has nothing to do with the Forward Spotting Rule, it has to do with an enemy marked unit leaving the hex or being eliminated.
      
SamW44
Member
Cadet

User Pages
Posts: 84
Registered:
August 2017
Re:Big Guns question Thu, 18 August 2022 09:24
If you are up against this, the Forward Spotting rules make the infantry in the church a real target for you - you want them out of there to deny your opponent the ability to upgrade their artillery into Big Guns.

So, I would personally play this so that as soon as that infantry unit is not on the church hex, the artillery loses its Big Gun power - no extra range, zeroed in tokens removed.

It would seem unfair and far less interesting play-wise if your opponent could zero in on a unit 8 hexes away and despite eliminating the infantry later, you cannot stop them attacking your unit.
      
Antoi
Senior Member
Bring Boys Back Home

User Pages
Posts: 1154
Registered:
March 2005
Re:Big Guns question Mon, 12 September 2022 18:52
Major Duncan wrote on Thu, 04 August 2022 18:46

Playing 'Defensive Battle of Sasselie'.

A German inf unit reduced to 2 figures occupies the church, and their art has zeroed in on a Soviet tank unit. If I play Attack 3 Centre, can I move the inf out of the church and move a full strength inf unit in, and then fire my art with the extra dice, or would I lose Big Gun status as soon as the unit left the church, along with the Zeroed in counter?


trying to understand:

1) A unit enters the church so the artillery becomes a big gun
2) it fires on a unit, hits so its zeroed in.
3) the unit in the church leaves......
Right?

So in my opinion:
As soon as a unit leaves the church the artillery is no longer a big gun. since normal artillery has no zeroed in marker, the marker is lost.
A new unit can enter the church and the artillery becomes a big gun again. As soon as a unit get hit the zeroed in marker is used again.

It also answers the question if the unit in the churches gets killed or must retreat. Stays the gun zeroed in?

[Updated on: Mon, 12 September 2022 18:53]

      
jdrommel
DoW Content Provider
FFM44 Bureau

User Pages
Posts: 1243
Registered:
March 2006
Re:Big Guns question Tue, 13 September 2022 09:35
Hello,
Just a simple comment of the "Defensive battle of Sasselie" scenario.
Officially, there is no "Big Guns" nor "Forward Spotting" rules in this scenario. Confused
But, of course, you can play it with these rules if you want... Cool
      
Major Duncan
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 278
Registered:
July 2004
Re:Big Guns question Wed, 14 September 2022 18:22
But the scenario specifically designates a church in the set up?

Obviously, a church tile can be used for a general building tile when no church is specified, but it was my belief that if the scenario set up specifically designated a church tile, then the rules for that would be in use. Otherwise, why not just have 7 generic building tiles in the set up?

This could cause a lot of confusion.
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Lake Express

User Pages
Posts: 8522
Registered:
July 2007
Re:Big Guns question Thu, 15 September 2022 00:01
Major Duncan wrote on Wed, 14 September 2022 09:22

But the scenario specifically designates a church in the set up?

Obviously, a church tile can be used for a general building tile when no church is specified, but it was my belief that if the scenario set up specifically designated a church tile, then the rules for that would be in use. Otherwise, why not just have 7 generic building tiles in the set up?

This could cause a lot of confusion.


Here are the rules for Church tiles: https://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compe ndium/?id=terrain_19

I'm guessing that you assumed the presence of a Church tile automatically put the Forward Spotting Rules in place but those have to be called out specifically. And I don't see that in the scenario information.

As it is, the church tile provides more protection to a unit in there which is why that tile was probably used.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 September 2022 00:03]

      
Zalamence
Senior Member
Mayor

User Pages
Posts: 251
Registered:
June 2010
Re:Big Guns question Fri, 16 September 2022 18:21
Ha, I missed that totally. Yes, even though a church may be used (by the scenario author) as a hex that grants forward spotting bonuses when occupied, it is dependent of the scenario.

Just like a hill may be used for this, but that does not mean every hill is a forward spotting location.

Church has an additional defensive buff compared to town&village, it allows the defending unit to ignore one flag.
      
Major Duncan
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 278
Registered:
July 2004
Re:Big Guns question Sun, 18 September 2022 14:03
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 14 September 2022 23:01

I'm guessing that you assumed the presence of a Church tile automatically put the Forward Spotting Rules in place but those have to be called out specifically. And I don't see that in the scenario information.

As it is, the church tile provides more protection to a unit in there which is why that tile was probably used.

Maybe I'm missing something.



No, you are right. I have played for so long with the forward spotting rule with churches, that I had long forgotten they were optional Embarassed .
      
peache314
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registered:
September 2022
Re:Big Guns question Wed, 21 September 2022 09:47
I would personally play this so that as soon as that infantry unit is not on the church hex, the artillery loses its Big Gun power - no extra range, zeroed in tokens removed.
      
    
Previous Topic:Soviet Raid on Grigorevka
Next Topic:Scenarios for the summer holidays
Goto Forum: