Ticket to Ride Japan Ticket to Ride Japan

Forums

Search
Forums » BattleLore - English » Call to Arms Creature Questions
Show: Today's Posts 
  
AuthorTopic
MBeach
Junior Member
Cadet

Posts: 7
Registered:
July 2006
  Call to Arms Creature Questions Fri, 11 May 2007 18:17
I have a few questions regarding creatures in the Call to Arms expansion.

Can you deploly any color creature of your choice for the creature icon on the deployment cards?

If the answer to the above is no, how do you handle the case when both players get a green creature in impromtu mode?

If you don't get a creature in your 4 deployment cards can you still choose one as a lore council choice and deploy in row 3 or 4 with lair when using Call to Arms, or was that rule intended as a placeholder untill Call to Arms was released?

How do you handle creature lairs if present?

I'm going to go under the assumption that you may play any creature in your collection for now and ignore lairs for the time being unless playing a pre deployed scenario.

I love where there this game is heading and can't wait to see what comes with the nation play they hint at! No sooner does one expansion comes out and you are allready anticipating the next!
      
mvettemagred
Senior Member

Posts: 266
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Fri, 11 May 2007 20:10
I'm very interested in the answers to your questions. Hopefully someone at DoW will jump on this one.

Since the Hill Giant (a blue creature) was available day one with pre-orders of Battlelore, I would hope the creature unit symbol on the CtA deployment cards would simply represent any creature, not specifically a GREEN banner creature (of which there is only one).
      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Sat, 12 May 2007 04:34
I can't find it right at the moment, but I think DOW said that the creature symbol represents all creatures and can be either green or blue even though only green is shown on the cards.
      
Jonny Pez
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registered:
April 2007
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Sat, 12 May 2007 05:55
I agree that the creature rules seem a bit unclear. If one player deploys a creature before the other player can, what does the other player deploy in the creature's place?
      
RBorg
Game Designer
Cadet

User Pages
Posts: 258
Registered:
December 2003
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 14 May 2007 19:47
- When using Call to Arms deployment cards, if either player has deployed a creature, the other player does not have the right to place a level token on the creature's spot in exchange for any creature of the player's choice.

- If only one creature is available, the green banner spider that is included in the core product, the spider will go to the player who deploys it first. This is very subtle, but there really is some strategy as to where the creature deployment card is placed. Remember, both players' deployment cards are turned at the same time in the right wing first and then units and creatures are deployed in that wing. The center deployment card is revealed next, then the left wing and finally the reserve. If you have a deployment card with a green banner creature on your right wing and I have a green banner creature deployment card in the center, you get the spider and I get to place a green Feudal Levy Token. Should both players have a deployment card with a creature and are trying to deploy it at the same time, to see who will get to deploy the creature, roll 6 dice, most green helmets rolled will deploy the creature, the other player places a green Feudal Levy Token.

Also note that if both players have a reserve deployment card with a creature the player deploying his reserve first, can take the spider if it is still available and the other play would not be able to deploy a creature and would have to select other units to deploy as his reserve.

- When more than one creature is available, the player that is deploying the creature first may select any creature that uses one level, the Spider, Hill Giant or Summon Circle / Earth Elemental? and if both players are trying to deploy a creature at the same time, the player that rolls the most green helmets will select his creature first.

Also note that if both players have a reserve deployment card with a creature one player will deploy his reserve first and therefore has first choice.

Richard Borg

[Updated on: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:47]

      
beehive23
Junior Member
First Lieutenant

Posts: 5
Registered:
December 2004
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 14 May 2007 20:19
RBorg wrote on Mon, 14 May 2007 10:47

- When more than one creature is available, the player that is deploying the creature first may select any creature that uses one level...



Is this the first (official) indication that there will be creatures that count for multiple council levels?
      
eric
-= Crew =-
Advanced Combat Training

User Pages
Posts: 3187
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 14 May 2007 20:42
It sure looks like it, Very Happy
      
tom-le-termite
Senior Member

Posts: 1795
Registered:
May 2003
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 14 May 2007 21:59
Richard Borg's clarification is very usefull. thanks a lot.

however, Why isn't that stated clearly in the rule book of CtA?

I am a DOW fan's from the very first hour, but I have to admit that for Battlelore, I am starting to get frustrated to look for all the precisions in the forum, in a very non-official way, while all of this could have been done in the rulebook.

...

[Updated on: Mon, 14 May 2007 22:00]

      
Jude
Senior Member
Cadet

User Pages
Posts: 196
Registered:
April 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 14 May 2007 22:36
I agree with tom-le-termite. Although the clarifications are greatly appreciated, it would have been nice if the rulebook were more carefully playtested and copy-edited before printing.

Especially since DoW has made a practice of releasing the rulebooks (at least, partially) in pdf form before the game is shipped, if they had done this and then used the feedback to fine-tune the actual rulebook before printing it, everyone would have benefitted.

I have years of experience in copy-editing and playtesting for both boardgames and computer games, and I can testify that it does make a great difference.

Jude

[Updated on: Mon, 14 May 2007 22:37]

      
dfristrom2
Junior Member

Posts: 11
Registered:
May 2004
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Tue, 15 May 2007 13:50
How do creature lairs work with Call to Arms?
      
cebalrai
Senior Member

Posts: 232
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Tue, 15 May 2007 14:27
DoW will probably release an FAQ/errata at some point, right? It would be nice to have all these answers in one place that I can print out and take to gaming nights. Smile
      
Jude
Senior Member
Cadet

User Pages
Posts: 196
Registered:
April 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Tue, 15 May 2007 20:51
player142544 wrote on Tue, 15 May 2007 08:27

DoW will probably release an FAQ/errata at some point, right? It would be nice to have all these answers in one place that I can print out and take to gaming nights. Smile



Well, they haven't, yet, so I wouldn't hold my breath...

battleloremaster.com has an unofficial Faq that was compiled from questions and official answers on this forum and elsewhere, but it hasn't been undated recently and doesn't cover the CtA expansion.

Jude
      
kes_167
Junior Member

Posts: 16
Registered:
September 2005
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 17 May 2007 00:22
Hmmm, i still havent seen an answer to the question about if you can "still choose one as a lore council choice and deploy in row 3 or 4 with lair when using Call to Arms"....
      
ironcates
Junior Member

Posts: 3
Registered:
September 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 17 May 2007 01:30
If your opponent uses deployment you can't, otherwise you can. From the first sentence.

Am I right?
      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 17 May 2007 01:51
kes_167 wrote on Wed, 16 May 2007 17:22

Hmmm, i still havent seen an answer to the question about if you can "still choose one as a lore council choice and deploy in row 3 or 4 with lair when using Call to Arms"....

I can't seem to find it right now, but I thought this was answered in the blog or in the forums.

Basically, Call to Arms supercedes previous set-up rules. So while deploying creature(s) using the Deployment deck whil cost you the appropriate amount of Lore Master levels on your War Council, you will no longer be able to take an extra level and place another creature.

It's like saying you are going to take a standard scenario with the armies already on it and try to deploy more. You either use the base game or Call to Arms, but not both. At least, that's how I understand it.
      
eric
-= Crew =-
Advanced Combat Training

User Pages
Posts: 3187
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 17 May 2007 02:12
Coltsfan last post is correct.
      
dfristrom2
Junior Member

Posts: 11
Registered:
May 2004
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 17 May 2007 15:23
Ok, so I'll ask again. If the Call to Arms rules supersede the standard rules for deploying creatures, how do creature lairs get deployed? If a card lets me deploy a creature and I choose the Hill Giant, do I get its lair and if so where does it go? And what happens if I choose the Earth Elemental, which normally doesn't start on the board? Do I deploy its lair instead? If so, where do I put the lair(given that the creature's starting hex may already have terrain in it)?
      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 17 May 2007 15:54
The previous answers were for the creature themselves. If you deplopy a creature through CtA, you would still place the lair in the same manner. (I don't have the rules in front of me but I believe lair placement is one of the latter steps - after you call your Lore Council I believe - CtA only replaces steps 1 and 4 in the base game, so all other steps remain).

So you deploy your creature per the rules of CtA. You then place the lair in the 3rd or 4th row (or whatever the specifics are) as per the base game instructions.

As far as the special case of the Earth Elemntal, if that is the creature you choose ot field, then I would say that the summoning circle goes to the hex as indicated on the deployment card and the EE comes out like normal. If the hex where the summoning circle goes is impassable terrain, then move it to the baseline. If no room, you don't get the EE this game.
      
Raza2
Junior Member

Posts: 15
Registered:
January 2007
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 17 May 2007 23:51
Coltsfan's answer would make sense to me.
      
tech7
Senior Member
Cadet

Posts: 147
Registered:
September 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 21 May 2007 00:48
Another question, in the organized mode you shuffle two decks, correct ? And in each of the decks, there is one card which places a creature. Is it possible to have two creatures, if you draw both cards ?

[Updated on: Mon, 21 May 2007 00:51]

      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 21 May 2007 02:31
tech7 wrote on Sun, 20 May 2007 17:48

Another question, in the organized mode you shuffle two decks, correct ? And in each of the decks, there is one card which places a creature. Is it possible to have two creatures, if you draw both cards ?

Yes. And since both players have the potential for 2 creatures, you may get in a situation where 4 are needed on the board. If you don't have enough creatures, they get the levy token and would then have to be replaced by green units at the proper time.
      
MBeach
Junior Member
Cadet

Posts: 7
Registered:
July 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 21 May 2007 13:26
I think you are only supposed to have one creature per side, so if you draw both creatures the second one on your side will become a green feudal levey token.
      
yangtze
DoW Content Provider
Major

User Pages
Posts: 1842
Registered:
July 2005
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 21 May 2007 14:01
Interesting query.

I'm with Coltsfan here though, working on the logic that the levy tokens only kick in where the official pool of troops in one base set has been exhausted, and there are three official creatures so far.

There may be a question as to whether or not you can have more than 3 creatures on the board though...

My guess is, working on the basis that I sense DoW would operate a 'do what's most fun' policy with Battlelore, that they would say deploy as many creatures as the cards allow, and that you have available.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:03]

      
mvettemagred
Senior Member

Posts: 266
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Mon, 21 May 2007 14:17
Agreed. Experienced players know the impact creatures have on gameplay, so you can decide how many creatures you're comfortable with. Personally, I think one creature per side is enough for standard scenarios. More than that would draw too much attention to the creatures, changing the feel and flow of the game.

More than one creature per side should be fine for Epic, but I haven't tried that yet.
      
tech7
Senior Member
Cadet

Posts: 147
Registered:
September 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Tue, 22 May 2007 13:11
Okay,
thanks for your answers.
      
tom-le-termite
Senior Member

Posts: 1795
Registered:
May 2003
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Tue, 22 May 2007 15:32
With all these important rules stated here, it would be wise from DoW to add this information in the Creature compendidum, relative to CtA, so people don't have to dig in the forum to find the info, ro ask again on regular basis...
      
JMcL63
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 305
Registered:
August 2004
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Wed, 23 May 2007 01:36
tom-le-termite wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 14:32

With all these important rules stated here, it would be wise from DoW to add this information in the Creature compendidum, relative to CtA, so people don't have to dig in the forum to find the info, ro ask again on regular basis...

I'm sure DoW will do this just as soon as they can; just as I'm sure someone will start a new thread on this subject just as soon as this one drops off the front page of the forum... Rolling Eyes

Meanwhile, let's not forget that DoW have a whole host of games to work on, and that maintaining their online FAQ is a service which takes man-hours away from actually making money- it's a harsh world out there! Wink
      
eric
-= Crew =-
Advanced Combat Training

User Pages
Posts: 3187
Registered:
October 2002
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Wed, 23 May 2007 01:47
We will update the Creature compendium indeed, as soon as we can.
      
Zeal
Senior Member
Second Lieutenant

Posts: 214
Registered:
December 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Wed, 23 May 2007 18:29
[quote title=JMcL63 wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 17:36]

Quote:


Meanwhile, let's not forget that DoW have a whole host of games to work on, and that maintaining their online FAQ is a service which takes man-hours away from actually making money- it's a harsh world out there! Wink


Whole host of games?? Does this mean the long-awaited "Shadows over Camelot" historical variant expansion that allows you to battle "Cleopatra" will arrive on shelves soon?

      
izack
Junior Member
Cadet

Posts: 6
Registered:
August 2007
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 12:18
New questions about this topic (some background info, i have both promo minis and the spider, my friend has the EE and spider):

1. Do I need to put council level tokens on the creature space if my deployment cards give me a creature?

2. If the answer to the above is yes, do I have to place 2 levels if I deploy 2 lvl 1 creatures? (well i'm only deploying level 1 creatures)

3. Can I deploy 2 of the same creatures on my side? (2 EE, HG or spiders, since i have enough of them) How does this affect the lair placement?

4. Can my opponent deploy the same creature I deployed if he has a copy of the creature? How does this affect the lair placement?
      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 14:11
1. This has been spoken about in depth. Regardless if a scenario tell you to or if your deployment card tells you to, you ALWAYS place a Lore Master token on the Creature spot if you have creatures on your side.

2. Yes, for each level of creature that you have, one lore master token is placed. If you have two Level 1 creatures, you place two levels' worth of tokens.

3. This haasn't really been addressed, but yes, you should be able to place two of the same creature if you own them. Lairs are a different story and need official clarification. You have one of three options:
a) Both creatures place a Lair as normal (with each being able to use either)
b) Only one Lair is placed but both may use it)
c) No one gets a Lair since there are two of the same creatures.

The default answer should probably follow the same as what was ruled about each side having the same Level 3 Lore Masters in Reluctant Allies. Which, unfortunately, I don't think was ever answered. (Yep, looks like it wasn't answered).

4. Like the above question, both players can have the same creature if you own them. Lairs have not been addressed. Again, I would draw from the Landmark rules until further clarified. That also gives a couple otpions to follow:
a) If both players have the same level 3 Lore master, neither gets the landmark for that character, with the exception of....
b) If both players have a Level 3 Commander, they both get a Stronghold.

I assume Option A is in place since only 1 tile each is included in the game (but that betgs the question that they probably only put 1 tile each in the game because they felt 2 on the field where too powerful?). But if you own both creatures, you have both Lairs, so supply isn't a problem.

The real kicker is that both question 4 and 5 only address the Hill Giant. The Spider doean' have a lair and the Earth Elemental NEEDS one to come into play. So given that, my opinion is that we can do Option 4A and 5B - every creature gets their own lair. The next question would be - can Hill giants then use an opponent's rock pile to toss rocks at him! (It was already determined that only the owner of the summoning circle could use it to bring out the EE).
      
izack
Junior Member
Cadet

Posts: 6
Registered:
August 2007
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 14:52
ColtsFan76 wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 20:11


2. Yes, for each level of creature that you have, one lore master token is placed. If you have two Level 1 creatures, you place two levels' worth of tokens.

The real kicker is that both question 4 and 5 only address the Hill Giant. The Spider doean' have a lair and the Earth Elemental NEEDS one to come into play. So given that, my opinion is that we can do Option 4A and 5B - every creature gets their own lair. The next question would be - can Hill giants then use an opponent's rock pile to toss rocks at him! (It was already determined that only the owner of the summoning circle could use it to bring out the EE).


2. is rather unfair, a lvl in the counil is rather powerful. having to sacrifice 2 lvls just because i drew 2 creatures seems like a penalty to me.

I wonder about the HG too, what if i deploy 2 HG's on my side? Do i get 2 rock piles and can they toss rocks from the other rock pile?
      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 15:58
izack wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 07:52

2. is rather unfair, a lvl in the counil is rather powerful. having to sacrifice 2 lvls just because i drew 2 creatures seems like a penalty to me.

Just because you draw two cards with creatures does not mean you have to place them both.

Option one is to select one of the creature cards as your reserve card. Then you can choose which 2 units are placed on the board and disregard the creature if you please.

Option two (if you really wanted the other units on the card) is to play it as your left section card. This is the last card to be revealed. If you have already selected a creature and your opponent has as well, then you might be able to get buy with saying, "darn, you took the creature I wanted, I will just take a levy token instead." But option 2 may backfire. It would help if you limited the creatures available to only one each even if you own 2 of each; of course, you and your opponent would have to agree to this beforehand.

Option three is to only select one Deployement deck instead of two when you set up your game. That way the most you can ever pull is one Creature.

So I think it is fair enough given you have multiple options. Most times, most people see the creatures as a good thing. Strange that you find having drawn two of them a penalty. I think it less fair to allow one person to have two creatures but only one slot taken up on the War Council.

Quote:

I wonder about the HG too, what if i deploy 2 HG's on my side? Do i get 2 rock piles and can they toss rocks from the other rock pile?

Yes, this will need official clarification.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 August 2007 16:11]

      
izack
Junior Member
Cadet

Posts: 6
Registered:
August 2007
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 16:10
ColtsFan76 wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 21:58

I think it less fair to allow one person to have two creatures but only one slot taken up on the War Council.


Well I reread the rulebooks and nowhere does it say i have to place 2 tokens on the creature space on my war council if i have 2 lvl 1 creatures; it does say you should place 1 token for each level of creature, 2 lvl 1 creatures are still lvl 1 isn't it? well i shouldn't have played the other creature that time but how would i know it worked against me.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 August 2007 16:12]

      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 16:30
izack wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 09:10

Well I reread the rulebooks and nowhere does it say i have to place 2 tokens on the creature space on my war council if i have 2 lvl 1 creatures; it does say you should place 1 token for each level of creature, 2 lvl 1 creatures are still lvl 1 isn't it? well i shouldn't have played the other creature that time but how would i know it worked against me.


OK. I think you just answered your own question. You place 1 token for each level of creature. If you have one level 1 and another Level 1 - that equals two levels. (And not sure where you found this in the rules - do you have a page reference?) The Creature Compendium states this:
Quote:

Level: The number of level tokens required by this Creature on the War Council

So if you have multiple creatures, they EACH require that number of Lore Master Tokens.

We have asked that DOW substatiate this interpretation and so far they haven't commented one way or another. So there is a chance that we are all wrong. But it makes sense that allowing multiple creatures cost you multiple slots. More creatures is typically a benefit and so the trade off is restricting the amount of Lore Master tokens you can place elsewhere on your Council.

Second, it is a natural limit to how many creatures you may have. Since no Lore Master may go over 3 level, then you could never have more than 3 levels of creatures. Whethere you be limited to some feature Level 3 Dragon, or have all three Level 1 Creatures now, that is it. So you couldn't field an army full of creatures and do battle.

As I explained it in another thread, you don't actually have creatures sitting in your war council like the Cleric or Wizard. They are on the battle field. So a way to explain this is that you have a Creature handler on your council. If you only have one creature that is 1 level, he only needs to be a Level 1 Creature Master to handle a level 1 creature. But if you bring two creatures in, then he needs to be a Level 2 Creature Master in order to handle them both. This is by no means an official explanation or in the rulebook. Just a means to comprehend the theme of controlling creatures.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 August 2007 16:32]

      
mvettemagred
Senior Member

Posts: 266
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 16:53
I recently reread the rules about creature lairs in the Landmarks section of the base rulebook. It states that absent explicit direction from a scenario, the creature lair is deployed with the creature.

So, with CtA, if two like creatures are deployed (e.g. 2 Hill Giants), then each Giant is deployed with his lair. I believe it was clarified in another thread that creature lairs are treated differently than Lore Master Landmarks; thus the restriction on duplicate Landmarks doesn't apply to creature lairs.

Another base rule for Landmarks is, only the player who deployed the Landmark gets the benefit from the Landmark. To remain consistent with this rule, only the creature deployed with a lair can use that lair.

I don't work for DoW (bummer), but I suspect my interpretation is correct.
      
izack
Junior Member
Cadet

Posts: 6
Registered:
August 2007
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 18:12
what we need is official clarification really. i don't like non binding rules ...
      
ColtsFan77
Senior Member

User Pages
Posts: 3313
Registered:
February 2006
Re:Call to Arms Creature Questions Thu, 23 August 2007 19:06
mvettemagred wrote on Thu, 23 August 2007 09:53

I don't work for DoW (bummer), but I suspect my interpretation is correct.

I tend to agree.
      
    
Previous Topic:Dwarven Mercenaries
Next Topic:Open questions for DOW
Goto Forum: