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Pipisongo
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February 2007
The Siege of Juvage Sun, 03 August 2008 00:00
There is a new adventure/story up I'm sure most of you would enjoy. Please follow the link:

The Siege of Juvage / Deliver the Message

[Updated on: Wed, 06 August 2008 11:25]

      
Old Dwarf
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October 2006
Re:The Siege of Juvage Sun, 03 August 2008 13:03
Embarassed I was looking for this from your BLM post but
could not find it there Rolling Eyes

So i'm on my way to check it out.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 August 2008 13:03]

      
toddrew
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October 2006
Re:The Siege of Juvage Sun, 03 August 2008 16:59
I don't think there's a post about it, yet - but it is in the dispatches, here.

Though, you likely found it without too much trouble Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 03 August 2008 17:00]

      
Caboose
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Re:The Siege of Juvage Tue, 05 August 2008 02:27
Three questions

1) I presume Standard player goes 1st - Scenario doesn't state that (but somewhat implied by the "end of Pennant's player turn" in the "In Hot Pursuit" section)

2) In regards to the message :
a) Is that a typo in regrds to message setup - saying it is placed on any hex in the Pennant's edge of the game board ?? Would be great if that aspect is clarified.
b) In regards to the unit carrying the message - can they drop the message for any reason ? I'm presuming they can - but could be abused for the purposes of basically "passing" the message token to other units during their respective movement turn.

Cab
      
Pipisongo
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Re:The Siege of Juvage Tue, 05 August 2008 12:53
Quote:

1) I presume Standard player goes 1st - Scenario doesn't state that (but somewhat implied by the "end of Pennant's player turn" in the "In Hot Pursuit" section

The Pennant player goes first. Somehow that was lost when the adventure was translated to .pdf. It will be corrected. This adventure has been playtested plenty and you will be surprised that it is difficult to stop the cavalry. Even with them going second and fighting from the river (should they choose that route) with only 2 dice. In any case, it makes for very interesting games.

Quote:

a) Is that a typo in regrds to message setup - saying it is placed on any hex in the Pennant's edge of the game board ?? Would be great if that aspect is clarified.

What you are referring as setup is actually listed in the victory conditions. The adventure map shows which unit is carrying the message at the start of the game(represented as a victory token). The victory condition for the standard player is to break through the enemy lines and have the message reach the Pennant player's edge.

Quote:

b) In regards to the unit carrying the message - can they drop the message for any reason ? I'm presuming they can - but could be abused for the purposes of basically "passing" the message token to other units during their respective movement turn.

They cannot willingly drop the message. That would undermine both the story, and the passing rule established on the special rules.

Thanks for your input and I hope you enjoyed the story.
      
Caboose
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Re:The Siege of Juvage Tue, 05 August 2008 19:28
Actually 2 more questions - namely in regards to the Lore

1) Is the Pennant player actually playing the Warrior cards at level 0 or level 1 ? I know there are only 2 level based cards
in the Warrior deck but just seems odd they would play at level 0 vs the normal level 1 (plus having to pay 3 more lore as well).
2) I presume only 8 warrior cards form the lore deck ?

As for Standards, Pennants, obviously it was easy to determine who is who (since one side has the Spider). Have you tried the other creatures (namely Giant) and has that made any difference?

As for the Pennants going up thru the water, I think that would be "obvious" (green units there ) vs going through red/blue units on their left side. And with some of those green units being goblin, based on where they start, some of them might get figures "killed" via not being able to retreat far enough. Or killed by being trapped. As for the Pennants, they could do the "go behind the hills" and wait since none of the archers can hit them.

Definitely an interesting scenario.

Cab

[Updated on: Tue, 05 August 2008 19:54]

      
Pipisongo
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February 2007
Re:The Siege of Juvage Wed, 06 August 2008 02:38
Quote:

1) Is the Pennant player actually playing the Warrior cards at level 0 or level 1 ? I know there are only 2 level based cards
in the Warrior deck but just seems odd they would play at level 0 vs the normal level 1 (plus having to pay 3 more lore as well).
2) I presume only 8 warrior cards form the lore deck ?


Per the Special Rules section of the adventure:
Quote:

Fightn' Clash:The lore deck for this adventure will consist of the 15 Warrior cards only. The Standard player can use these cards as level 3 warrior and the Pennant player can use the cards as level 0 warrior. In addition, the pennant player starts the game with no lore tokens or lore cards, and can have a maximum of 1 lore card in his hand.


So yes, Pennant plays as a 0 level warrior, can have a maximum of 1 card in his hand, and will always need to pay 3 additional lore to use a lore card. The Lore Deck for this game is all 15 warrior cards. No warrior cards are left out, and no card from any other Lore Master can be included in the deck.

Of course you could try the scenario with a level 1 Warrior for the Pennant side if you wish. But the odds of getting the Assault lore card and being able to play it increase substantially. It is very unlikely that any Standard unit is left standing after this card is played. The idea is to have just the threat of a game ending nuke, but to make it so it is very unlikely to happen. (Though I have been able to use it at as a Lvl 0 Warrior.)

Quote:

As for Standards, Pennants, obviously it was easy to determine who is who (since one side has the Spider). Have you tried the other creatures (namely Giant) and has that made any difference?

The shape of the banners is always used to differentiate the Standard Army from the Pennant Army, regardless of which creatures or races are involved in the battle.
I have not playtested this scenario with the giant in place of the spider.

Quote:

As for the Pennants, they could do the "go behind the hills" and wait since none of the archers can hit them.

I presume you meant the "Standards" and accidentally typed "Pennants"

Not a chance. Remember that the pursuing Pennant Cavalry will arrive later in the game. The Standard Cavalry has to break through the enemy lines, and do it quickly too! This scenario is well thought out and playtested.

Quote:

Definitely an interesting scenario.

Glad you like it. I hope this thread spurs more interest in alternative scenarios where the story ties in directly to what happens on the battlefield, and object of the game is not simply to destroy a set number of units.

[Updated on: Wed, 06 August 2008 04:37]

      
Pipisongo
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February 2007
Re:The Siege of Juvage Wed, 06 August 2008 11:19
Cab,

Our good friend Universalhead at www.battleloremaster.com updated the .pdf to reflect your feedback. Thanks very much to both of you.
      
Caboose
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Re:The Siege of Juvage Wed, 06 August 2008 18:44
Pipi,

In regards to pennants/standards, I was referring to the 2 players (Bash'leen and Federick) since there was no indication as to who is who (but when one seens who has the spider, then it becomes apparent). Should have been more cleared on that aspect.

Lastly, in regards to recruitments, it is correct the Standards get their recruits on their side of the board but the Pennants get their recruits on the STANDARD edge ?? If so, may I ask why (even though they are 2 red and 1 blue mounted) ?? Since I know it seems the Pennants are more moveable and all but I would think that maybe they might appear on the hills. I sure hope that its a typo, even if it is 2 red units, they still can move 2 hexes. And thus if it is on the Standards side, could make a BIG dent on the Standards side that particular turn for sure! (11 new dice for sure if one plays it correctly plus maybe some other units as well) - of course if the pennants roll badly, it could be a short day for them since you know the STandards will block them in with all their units!!

Cab

[Updated on: Thu, 07 August 2008 01:37]

      
Caboose
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Re:The Siege of Juvage Thu, 07 August 2008 02:00
Pipi, since basically the hills basically don't get much attention - more so the bottom row, have you thought of moving the scenario DOWN one row and shifted to the right (as you look at the scenario - thus the hill on the right would be removed) and thus give more room for the Standards ? And thus add another river hex in a NW direction to continue it's flow. And maybe add 2 hill somewhere on that row perhaps (or on the "current Standard edge") since 2 hills will be removed - one would probably put one near the hill that is already on the back row for Standards.

Just a thought since I doubt that back row of the Pennants see much action and thus give more room for the Standards to retreat, etc.
Would be interested in any stats (more so for the Goblins as the scenario is) that takes losses due to not being able to retreat far enough due to hexes (and not due to being hemmed in)

As for the level "0" warrior, I still don't see why that is the case, since the 2 "level" cards (Beserk and Cry Havoc) really wouldn't do much. Sure I know you want the player to play the cards with an additional 3 lore (no problem) but still should be able to get the use the 2 above cards as level 1 (Berserk adds +1 d/ level for 1 unit, Cry Havoc - no additional dice but get lore as hits for all ordered units). If that is what you intended, then no problem from me but just wanted to clarify the level 0 stance.
      
Pipisongo
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February 2007
Re:The Siege of Juvage Fri, 08 August 2008 05:51
Cab,

Thanks for your input. I will not be able to answer all your questions properly until next week as I am currently on a trip. However I get the feeling that you have not read the story. This is a story-driven adventure. You will see why both reinforcements come from the same side, why the Pennants go first, and you will also appreciate the terrain layout. I recomend you play the adventure as written several times until you become familiar with the special rules.

The odd number of cavalry reinforcements is to make sure the scenario can be played with a single copy of the core game. No expansions are required. The Pennant Cavalry arriving at the rear is done intentionally. The Standard player knows he has to keep moving forward or he'll be crushed from behind.

The adventure is meant to be balanced to the extent that it is enjoyable for both sides. And from what I recall on the rules if you are level zero and pay 3 extra lore, you play the card as a level 1. (Of course I can be wrong)

Regards,
Pip

[Updated on: Fri, 08 August 2008 12:25]

      
Caboose
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Re:The Siege of Juvage Sat, 09 August 2008 01:47
Pipisongo wrote on Thu, 07 August 2008 21:51

Cab,

Thanks for your input. I will not be able to answer all your questions properly until next week as I am currently on a trip. However I get the feeling that you have not read the story. This is a story-driven adventure. You will see why both reinforcements come from the same side, why the Pennants go first, and you will also appreciate the terrain layout. I recomend you play the adventure as written several times until you become familiar with the special rules.

I did read the story and didn't see anywhere about the reinforcements - thus why I'm asking since I didn't see anything about them. Not saying they are not there - just didn't see anything.

Pipisongo wrote on Thu, 07 August 2008 21:51


The odd number of cavalry reinforcements is to make sure the scenario can be played with a single copy of the core game. No expansions are required. The Pennant Cavalry arriving at the rear is done intentionally. The Standard player knows he has to keep moving forward or he'll be crushed from behind.

Not questioning the # of reinforcements - which some scenarios had the ability of reinforcements - just seemed odd to have the
pennants come on the standards side, namely if you say the Pennants seem to have a better odds (or something to that affect in an earlier email).

I'm all for balanced scenarios and thus if one can add critique to a scenario and be willing to listen, that is usually 1/2 the battle (since some people are so intend of keeping true to a story but sometimes one has to bend a little to make it balanced).

Pipisongo wrote on Thu, 07 August 2008 21:51


The adventure is meant to be balanced to the extent that it is enjoyable for both sides. And from what I recall on the rules if you are level zero and pay 3 extra lore, you play the card as a level 1. (Of course I can be wrong)


Okay, we agree there - just making sure your intent was what it was.
      
    
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