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enen
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Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Sun, 13 November 2011 23:10
absolutely loving this version of the game, though sometimes with friends we have disagreements about how to interpret small talk rule between teammates.
what have you decided what is aloud and forbidden to say during the game?
      
Caboose
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Mon, 14 November 2011 18:14
Well since it hasn't shipped here in US yet, hard to say. So it might be some time before you get a response. Just thought I point that out.

Cab
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Tue, 15 November 2011 04:23
enen wrote on Mon, 14 November 2011 02:10

absolutely loving this version of the game, though sometimes with friends we have disagreements about how to interpret small talk rule between teammates.
what have you decided what is aloud and forbidden to say during the game?


Like Caboose pointed out, the North American population of players won't be able to test the game out until it ships...but I would say check the rules about what's allowed and what isn't. Razz Generally something like that will be explained fairly carefully and if it isn't, then it probably means that players can talk pretty freely.

Good luck and have fun! Cool
      
Caboose
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Fri, 18 November 2011 15:49
Here is what the one specific line in the rulebook that I think it "key" (and I use that word LIGHTLY!) :

"Players can make light talk, but cannot exchange game information, excepted as permitted by the rules dictating the use of their team's cardholder"

Oddly there is nothing in the cardholder section about what is permitted. Perhaps some clarification might be order as to what "light talk" is.

Cab

      
travisjhall
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Sat, 19 November 2011 04:03
Caboose wrote on Sat, 19 November 2011 00:49

Oddly there is nothing in the cardholder section about what is permitted.

Sure there is. You are permitted to spend your turn placing up to 2 Destination Tickets into your team's common cardholder, and the one advantage of doing so is that it gives information to your team-mate. When you draw Train cards, one of those goes into the cardholder, which again gives information to your team-mate.

Information isn't only conveyed verbally.

Caboose wrote on Sat, 19 November 2011 00:49

Perhaps some clarification might be order as to what "light talk" is.

It's pretty easy, really. You don't have to play in utter silence. You can ask how your partner's day was, what about them generic local sports team, quote Monty Python, argue about whether Occupy or the Tea Party are the greater idiots, whatever you like as long as it isn't about the game.

If you care to relax the rules a little, you might allow comment on the game, but only on matters that are already public knowledge. "The red team have a lot more track points than us." That's easy enough to decide on as a group. But you certainly may not convey anything about the contents of your hand, nor give instructions to your opponent.
      
Caboose
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Sat, 19 November 2011 21:32
Sorry I disagree on how you interpret "small talk". Namely if you run a tourny and have various people on how they would interpret it. The rules should be clear on what and what is not allowed...it is TOO vague to make such a decision. Nor should the tourny director have to hover around each board as well.

Namely if one person can direct the other teammate's play as in what they must grab from the wagon pile, where AND how they can lay down track, etc. Namely if teammate A has a ticket card in hand not revealed and not so OBVIOUS that teammate B has to lay track in one direction vs another direction. And that is just the cusp of some items (i.e. we haven't even gotten into ticket drawing!!)

There has to be a fine line as to what and what is NOT permitted.

Cab
      
travisjhall
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Sun, 20 November 2011 00:24
Caboose wrote on Sun, 20 November 2011 06:32

Sorry I disagree on how you interpret "small talk". Namely if you run a tourny and have various people on how they would interpret it. The rules should be clear on what and what is not allowed...it is TOO vague to make such a decision. Nor should the tourny director have to hover around each board as well.

Namely if one person can direct the other teammate's play as in what they must grab from the wagon pile, where AND how they can lay down track, etc.

What is so unclear about "cannot exchange game information"? Of course a player can't direct the partner's play - that is an exchange of game information.

Caboose wrote on Sun, 20 November 2011 06:32

Namely if teammate A has a ticket card in hand not revealed and not so OBVIOUS that teammate B has to lay track in one direction vs another direction.

This is very obviously against the rules. Why is there a difficulty here?

Caboose wrote on Sun, 20 November 2011 06:32

There has to be a fine line as to what and what is NOT permitted.

Is English your first language? Because "fine line" is an expression that generally refers to a distinction that is difficult to make due to how similar the regions on either side are. That's definitely not what you want when running a tournament. On the contrary, you want the line to be very thick, so that it is obvious what side something is on.

In this case, the relevant distinction is very clear. In tournament, you don't talk about the game.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 November 2011 14:35]

      
Caboose
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Mon, 21 November 2011 16:16
Based on your reply, it would seem that one could direct another to do such a play (direct a person)..I totally disagree.

Thus still say there should be something as to what is and what is NOT allowed, namely in regards to the game.
      
travisjhall
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Tue, 22 November 2011 14:43
Caboose wrote on Tue, 22 November 2011 01:16

Based on your reply, it would seem that one could direct another to do such a play (direct a person)..

Based on my reply? Which of the two replies I have made to this thread, both of which specifically state that doing that would be against the rules, gives you the impression that a player could give directions to his partner?

What in the rules for the game says that giving instructions to your partner is allowed? Why is this not adequately covered when the rules say that an exchange of game information (except as specifically covered by certain other rules) is not allowed? How is giving instructions to your partner not passing game information?

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion without wilfully misinterpreting both what I have said and the rules.
      
enen
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Tue, 22 November 2011 18:06
travisjhall: I think you are absolutely right about how to interpret the rules.
however.. we started playing with "Small Talk" being about the game itself. we do not say anything specific, like what kind of color I need to get, or to which city my partner should build the road, though we exchange some information as "let's hurry up with building roads", "are you finished with your tickets in hand?".
as I understand now, it's against the rules, it's just I can't imagine gameplay without these kind of remarks.
I mean, even when we play Europe/Marklin or other editions we talk almost only about the game, and we talk a lot - crying, laughing, complaining about the luck and so on. and I can't imagine playing this TeamAsia version in silence as rules suggests we should do.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Tue, 22 November 2011 18:13
enen wrote on Tue, 22 November 2011 21:06

travisjhall: I think you are absolutely right about how to interpret the rules.
however.. we started playing with "Small Talk" being about the game itself. we do not say anything specific, like what kind of color I need to get, or to which city my partner should build the road, though we exchange some information as "let's hurry up with building roads", "are you finished with your tickets in hand?".
as I understand now, it's against the rules, it's just I can't imagine gameplay without these kind of remarks.
I mean, even when we play Europe/Marklin or other editions we talk almost only about the game, and we talk a lot - crying, laughing, complaining about the luck and so on. and I can't imagine playing this TeamAsia version in silence as rules suggests we should do.


Rules are made to be broken!! Twisted Evil But seriously, you should play the game in a way that is fun for you and if that means being a little bit relaxed on 'team talk' then I say more power to you. It's your game and you can play it the way you want...

I'm guessing that the heated argument in the next room is more about how this new version would be played in a tournament or convention where judges are watching for too much table talk. I'm happy to wait and see if we get any word from the designer or from the crew because I can see both sides of the issue. Smile
      
travisjhall
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Re:Team Asia "Small Talk" rule Thu, 24 November 2011 15:57
enen wrote on Wed, 23 November 2011 03:06

I mean, even when we play Europe/Marklin or other editions we talk almost only about the game, and we talk a lot - crying, laughing, complaining about the luck and so on. and I can't imagine playing this TeamAsia version in silence as rules suggests we should do.

This would be why I suggested that, at least in casual play, you could allow comment on the game.

However, consider your typical game of TTR on any other map. You say you discuss the game, but how often do your really give away information to your opponents? Information that really matters? Say, how often do you let an opponent know, through your table talk, where you could be blocked? Or whether you have enough black cards to claim that long route out of LA yet?

I bet it's pretty rare. I bet your group far more often doesn't give away stuff like that until it is too late for the information to be used against you.

The restriction on table talk in Team Asia is little different to that. Sure, now some of the info you can give away will help you rather than hinder you, but surely keeping that out of the conversation isn't much harder than concealing the info that could hurt you?
      
    
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