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GreatDane
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  Sir Tristan's Special Power Wed, 25 May 2005 13:22
The boxout on page 13 (top right) reads:
Quote:

If you play SIR TRISTAN, and were in Camelot during your previous turn, your Special Power lets you move from the Round Table to any other Quest for free, leaving you with another valuable Heroic Action to perform.

Is this to be taken literally?
So if Sir Tristan is on a quest, but is called back to Camelot due to the play of Guinevere or Convocation during another player's turn, he cannot use his power to make a free move since he was not at Camelot during his previous turn?
      
Neva Kee
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Wed, 25 May 2005 14:00
Hm, the german rules just say that Sir Tristan can choose to move away from Camelot in addition to any other heroic action (except another movement). There is no other condition whatsoever.
      
Luke the Flaming
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Wed, 25 May 2005 14:07
We've noticed that as well.
However, since it feels a bit "cluncky" AND Tristan's Coat-of-Arms doesn't mention it, we ignore it (and consider his power as "can move freely from Camelot").
Have fun! Smile
      
GreatDane
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Wed, 25 May 2005 17:57
Neva kee:
Quote:

Hm, the german rules just say that Sir Tristan can choose to move away from Camelot in addition to any other heroic action (except another movement). There is no other condition whatsoever.

Look again at the purple boxout on page 13 and you will find the exact same wording in German:

"Wenn Sie TRISTAN spielen und während Ihres vorangegangene Zuges im Camelot waren..."
      
Bruno des Montagnes
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Wed, 25 May 2005 18:27
Hello everybody !

Concerning tristan:
- If he comes back to the round table because of Guinevere, he can't do anything else, just because hos turn is finished

- Concerning convocation:
He can first play convocation, moving back to camelot
Then, he can make his free move
Then, he can perform the héroic action corresponding on the quest where he is located, at cost of 1 bravoure point

- concerning winning a quest:
When he performs héroic action on the quest he is and fnishes the quest, he moves back to camelot.
Then he is allowed to use his free move
But he cannot spend 1 bravoure point to perform heroic action of his new location (because of rule saying you cannot choose the same action twice)
He could spend 1 bravoure point to play s special white card

I hope my explainations are understandable..
have fun
Bruno
      
GreatDane
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 26 May 2005 07:55
Not only was your explanation perfectly understandable
- it was also in line with my own understand of your game.
Thanks, Bruno!
      
mreitz
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 26 May 2005 13:48
Bruno des Montagnes schrieb am Wed, 25 May 2005 18:27

- concerning winning a quest:
When he performs héroic action on the quest he is and fnishes the quest, he moves back to camelot.
Then he is allowed to use his free move
But he cannot spend 1 bravoure point to perform heroic action of his new location (because of rule saying you cannot choose the same action twice)
He could spend 1 bravoure point to play s special white card


That's funny, because Eric told us another story in the other thread:
eric schrieb am Tue, 17 May 2005 17:10

mreitz wrote on Tue, 17 May 2005 00:51

Okay, we'll try to find out what the noble knights can do to prevent the traitor from winning with this strategy.

BTW, when sacrificing a life point to do a second heroic action, I'm not allowed to do the same action twice.
Is it possible to draw white cards at Camelot (first action) and then sacrifice a life point to fight against a siege engine (second action)? Is this considered a "different" action?
Or is it possible to perform two quest-specific actions if doing them at different quests (for example: finish a quest, come back to Camelot for free, and then sacrifice a life point for drawing white cards)?
We didn't allow that, because we considered doing the same "type" of action twice isn't allowed. Is that correct?

Michael



Michael,
yes, in Camelot you are correct, you cannot on the same turn, regardless of your power, both draw White cards and Fight Siege Engines as it would be considered the "same" Quest-specific action.

However, you can perform two different Quests - specific actions, so you could do your second example. So the answer to your second question is, yes it is possible to do what you then describe.

Happy playing,
eric


I guess that your interpretation is the correct one (you are the author at least). It would have been more clear if the rule would have used the phrase "... you cannot choose the same TYPE OF action twice ...".

Michael
      
Bruno des Montagnes
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 26 May 2005 15:01
by the way, we will publish a FAQ in the future to clarify what's needs to be !!
      
rok_ter
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 10:46
hello, i'm new SoC player.

my question is - what about that specific situation:

The other knight (not sir Tristan) plays the last card on some "multiplayer" quest. Sir Tristan is on that quest too. All knights from that quest go then to Camelot (because the quest is over).

Now it's time for Sir Tristan's turn. He starts his turn on Camelot, but according to the rules he can not use his free move ability because:


"If you play SIR TRISTAN, and were in Camelot during your previous turn, your Special Power lets you move from the Round Table to any other Quest for free, leaving you with another valuable Heroic Action to perform."


On his previous turn Sir Tristan has been on the quest, and he has came to Camelot during the other player's turn.

Can sir Tristan use his ability or not?
      
Luke the Flaming
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 12:23
Yes, he can.
His power is badly worded, but is very simple: when Tristan moves FROM Camelot, his movement is "free" (he can still do an action and even another one by spending a life point).
Have fun! Smile
      
GreatDane
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 12:36
While I agree with you, Luke, I find it interesting that my original question seven months ago still hasn't received an official reply - not even in the FAQ...
Twisted Evil
      
Luke the Flaming
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 12:45
Mr. Cathala answered seven posts above; what else do you need? Wink
      
rok_ter
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 12:56
Thanks for your reply, Luke, but this is still against the rules. Sir Tristan has not been in Camelot on his previous turn, and THIS IS the condition mentioned in the Rule Book. Have I missed something?
      
Luke the Flaming
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 13:05
The rulebook is badly written. The whole "previuos turn" thing shouldn't be there. Tristan's power should be simpy written as "Can move freely FROM Camelot". I think that Mr. Cathala confirmed it somewhere, but with so many forums around I can't find the exact post at the moment. Maybe he'll kindly re-confirm it here.
Have fun! Smile
      
rok_ter
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 13:30
That's change everything indeed.

If there is mistake in the Rules Book it should be added to the official FAQ then.

Thank you very much for your help, Luke.
      
GreatDane
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Thu, 29 December 2005 17:56
Luke the Flaming wrote on Thu, 29 December 2005 13:05

The rulebook is badly written. The whole "previuos turn" thing shouldn't be there. Tristan's power should be simpy written as "Can move freely FROM Camelot". I think that Mr. Cathala confirmed it somewhere, but with so many forums around I can't find the exact post at the moment. Maybe he'll kindly re-confirm it here.
Have fun! Smile


You just have to look a few posts up in this very thread...
I started this thread with the exact same question 7 months ago.
Bruno answered it and promised to include it in his FAQ - but he forgot the latter.
      
euklid
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Fri, 30 December 2005 02:32
GreatDane, you are correct that your question could/should have been addressed more clearly in the FAQ.

But actually in the Tristan example in the FAQ (I added it below) it DOES become obvious that the page 13 ruling on Tristan (...were in Camelot on your previous turn...) is not meant as an mandatory condition. Because in the example given in the FAQ, Tristan was not in Camelot in his previous turn (at least it is not mentioned), still he is allowed to use his special ability.

So your question was adressed in the FAQ 'in some way'. Smile

Have fun,
euklid

P.S.: Tristan example in the FAQ:
'It is Sir Tristan's turn, and he is on the Black Knight Quest.
He plays the last Fight card required to end the Quest (action of type B). He thus automatically returns to Camelot at no cost. This move does not count as an action, since it was automatically triggered by the completion of the Quest.
Once in Camelot, Tristan will neither be able to draw White cards nor fight the Siege Engines, if he chooses to perform a second Heroic Action. This is because this would be a second Quest-specific (Action of type B) action!
On the other hand, he could immediately move to another new Quest (because he hasn't chosen a Move action (Action of type A.) yet. Furthermore, this move will be free for him (because that move is his Special power).
Once there, he could also Heal himself (D), Play a Special White card (C) or accuse a fellow Knight (E), by sacrificing a Life Point to perform this second Heroic Action.'
      
GreatDane
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Fri, 30 December 2005 09:05
Sir tristan may very well be mentioned in the FAQ. But he is not listed in the overview at the beginning where you would look for him when you need to find an answer:
Quote:

IV. The Knight's Special Powers
- King Arthur : exchanging cards with another player
- Sir Kay
- Percival
- Sir Bedivere



Furthermore, the example you give does NOT answer the problem raised by myself on 25 May 2005 and by rok_ter on 29 Dec 2005.

In the example given Sir Tristan was clearly not in Camelot during his previous turn.
He was fighting a quest somewhere else!
Christmas

      
rok_ter
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Fri, 30 December 2005 09:29
GreatDane wrote on Thu, 29 December 2005 17:56


You just have to look a few posts up in this very thread...
I started this thread with the exact same question 7 months ago.
Bruno answered it and promised to include it in his FAQ - but he forgot the latter.




With all respect to all Senior Members Wink, my question have not been the same as yours. Mr Bruno answer tells about the situation when Sir Tristan plays the last card on a quest, and I was talking about the situation the other knight plays the last card. Although now I understand that the whole rule about "last turn in Camelot" is a mistake (in any kind of situation), my question have been other than yours and that's why I've decided to ask.

If I was wrong, forgive the junior Embarassed

Happy New Year Everybody!
      
GreatDane
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Fri, 30 December 2005 09:48
Forgive me for being senile, rok_ter, but please tell what the difference is between these two questions?

My question: Is this to be taken literally? So if Sir Tristan is on a quest, but is called back to Camelot due to the play of Guinevere or Convocation during another player's turn, he cannot use his power to make a free move since he was not at Camelot during his previous turn?

Your question: On his previous turn Sir Tristan has been on the quest, and he has came to Camelot during the other player's turn. Can sir Tristan use his ability or not?
      
rok_ter
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Fri, 30 December 2005 10:11
GreatDane wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 09:48

Forgive me for being senile, rok_ter, but please tell what the difference is between these two questions?

My question: Is this to be taken literally? So if Sir Tristan is on a quest, but is called back to Camelot due to the play of Guinevere or Convocation during another player's turn, he cannot use his power to make a free move since he was not at Camelot during his previous turn?

Your question: On his previous turn Sir Tristan has been on the quest, and he has came to Camelot during the other player's turn. Can sir Tristan use his ability or not?



Our questions are different because we are talking about the same result (going to Camelot on the others player turn) but different reasons (you are talking about Guinevre or Convocation cards, and I'm talking about finishing a quest by the other knight). If Mr Bruno would strictly said: "The last turn in Camelot rule is a mistake" there would be no reason to ask about other situations. But he did not. So I've asked about the other reason of not being on Camelot on the previous turn.

Hope my english is good enough to explain my meticulousness Smile

Sorry if I bother you, Dane - this is not my intention.
      
GreatDane
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Fri, 30 December 2005 12:26
rok_ter wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 10:11

Our questions are different because we are talking about the same result (going to Camelot on the others player turn) but different reasons (you are talking about Guinevre or Convocation cards, and I'm talking about finishing a quest by the other knight). If Mr Bruno would strictly said: "The last turn in Camelot rule is a mistake" there would be no reason to ask about other situations. But he did not. So I've asked about the other reason of not being on Camelot on the previous turn.

Hope my english is good enough to explain my meticulousness Smile

Sorry if I bother you, Dane - this is not my intention.


No bother at all and your English is at least as good as mine!

But we are both asking about what happends when Sir TRistan is called home from a Quest outside his own turn. Whether that happened as a result of the quest ending, by the use of a card or by some other means doesn't change the fact that he wasn't at Camelot during his last turn and thus is not qualified to use his special power - if the rules were to be taken as written.

So I still believe we basicly asking the same question.

One day - hopefully within the next year or so - will our estimed Grand Master of the Mountain answer the question, and we shall both be happy.

Best wishes for the New year!
      
rok_ter
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Fri, 30 December 2005 12:35
All the best to You and every noble knight of Camelot.
      
euklid
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Re:Sir Tristan's Special Power Mon, 02 January 2006 16:53
Hi,

I think we all agree that the question how to treat Sir Tristan's Special Power is clear (but it would be nice to have it officially confirmed, especially for new players that will not read this forum).

What I wanted to stress in my previous post: In the FAQ example Sir Tristan was NOT (necessarily) in Camelot during his previous turn. NEVERTHELESS the FAQ example states that Tristan IS allowed to use his special power in his current turn. So either the rule on page 13 is wrong, or the FAQ, because they disagree. Since the FAQ came later, the FAQ can't be wrong. Smile

This was what I meant with "So your [Danes] question was adressed in the FAQ 'in some way'". If the FAQ states that the page 13 rule does not apply in one case, it will not apply in the Guinevere/Convocation/quest fullfilling case, either.

Let's have fun, and let's ignore the page 13 rule! Smile
euklid

P.S.: In the FAQ example on Sir Tristan he starts his current move on the Black Knights Quest. On his previous turn, he could have moved from Camelot to the Black Knights Quest, so actually he COULD have been at Camelot at (the beginning of) his previous turn!
      
    
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