Small World of Warcraft Small World of Warcraft

Forums

Recherche
Forums » T2R Competitive Play - English » NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote
Montrer: Messages du jour 
  
AuteurSujet
Alleyooper
Member
Cadet

Messages: 42
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2007
NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 11:39
Hi NC Board members,

The Nations Cup has a Tournament Director for Scheduling but lacks a Tournament Director for Rules (TDR). The agonising nature of the "NC: Changing players in a fixed Line-up" conversation thread leads me to propose the following board members vote:

1. That a Tournament Director-Rules be appointed (Yes/No)
2. That Alleyooper be appointed Tournament Director-Rules (Yes/No)

If you want me, here is how it would go:

* Rule clarification/dispute questions need to be referred to the TDR by the team captain by email (not PM)
* The TDR may make further enquiries in the relation to the question as the TDR sees fit
* The TDR at their sole discretion may attempt to informally resolve the question by either
- explaining the relevant rules to those directly involved, and/or
- attempting a negotiated settlement within the scope of existing rules
* If the question cannot be resolved informally then the TDR will publish the question
* If the question can be answered within the existing rules, the TDR will also at that time publish a ruling in relation to the question which is final unless overturned by a subsequent NC Board vote
* If the question relates to an unclear or non existing rule, the TDR will propose a new rule or a rule clarification. The processes and consultation the TDR uses to reach this proposal are completely at the TDRs discretion. The proposal will then be the subject of a NC Board vote using the normal processes.

I'll leave it with you, but trust me, I won't be offended or disappointed by a resounding No vote to the second question!

Alleyooper
      
dea1
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2007

Messages: 2287
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 11:59
1) Yes, I think we definitely need a TD for things besides scheduling.

First I'd like to hear from Scott, whether he wants to be this TD - up to now it was not clear for me that he only wants to handle the lineups.

If Scott declines then
2) I'd happily accept your offer

-------

Talking about NC Board decisions I ask for vote #4:

Issue: Playing all games of a match in a row

My suggestion:
Games of a match shall in general be played in an uninterrupted sequence.
Splitting is however admissible if (and only if) both opponents agree.
Every player has the right to demand that his opponent plays all games in a row if he does so when the playing date is agreed.
In case a player cannot continue to play the agreed games due to an unforeseen problem it's within the TD's discretionary powers to allow a split nonetheless.

(I'm sure we had something like this somewhere in the rules some day - but as I can't find it anymore it seems we need a new rule on that topic)
      
Muddaihrsohn
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2006

Messages: 640
Enregistré(e) en :
October 2004
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 13:12
Same minds like dea... Thx!
      
OLE Masimo
Senior Member
Vainqueur FEUd Cup AdR 2009

Pages Perso
Messages: 809
Enregistré(e) en :
November 2004
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 13:20
In all the previuos NCs we had a TD with Thadd that ruled smaller rule problems and disagrements for us. I don`t think I need to remind you how badly we damaged the TD`s role last year with the TN issue. And this year it was not easy to find someone at all doing at least the basics (lineup) for us - Thank you, Scott for doing this for us.
I agree with Dea that he should be asked first if he could be TD rules as well.

And thank you very much Alley for your offer - I stay with Dea here too - if Scott declines I would happily accept your offer.

@Dea (vote4) - we had players that played only one, two games and then left in all previous NCs - Rolling Eyes - I guess the same ones that make you ask for this rule? I would say that 95% of all the games are played in one row. Do we really need another complicated rule for these very few players?

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 22 September 2008 13:21]

      
Nemo_
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 561
Enregistré(e) en :
December 2006
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 13:48
Oh, im so sorry about insulting comment.



EDIT: Im not sure what you mean with first, but i gladly let you be the TD 2

Alley, nice to see, that you are volunteer. I 100% support you.

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 22 September 2008 18:38]

      
ACP Miguel
Senior Member
Vainqueur Swiss Map Championship AdR 2011

Pages Perso
Messages: 591
Enregistré(e) en :
October 2006
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 16:24
didnt get the question.

i thought we were not replacing the board member but getting a Td for some quick decisions that wont need a board discussion. let's say someone opens a closed game and the opp wants that game not be counted i think int his case a TD could easily and faster end that discussion.

if it's to replace the board then NO!

Smile

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 25 September 2008 15:49]

      
LMAA-DN
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 929
Enregistré(e) en :
November 2006
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 19:03
Just like dea:

1) YES
2) YES - if SKM agrees
      
SMP-bassie
Senior Member

Messages: 491
Enregistré(e) en :
January 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 20:17
No and no.

Nothing personal but I prefer to leave it the way we have it now. We have wanted a TD for months and no one showed up, and NC Board seems to take care of matters. It would probably be faster with TD, but I don't want to change in the middle.

I realise that my viewpoint is irrelevant with all the yeses, but just wanted to cast my vote.

Good luck as TD btw Smile
      
erps
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 1633
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Mon, 22 September 2008 20:50
Hi

NO to all

1) Board is good enough for such matters
2) For me it's an affront for SKM after the questioning and why should we swap an american TD for an australian TD? Time problem is then even bigger for all players.
3) Please don't do a pressure on players that need more time. It's absurd that we should force players who played the first games before the round even started to play all in a row. And it is my freedom to make a pause after a bad loss or a 0:2. Can't understand that the proposal is from you. Remember last year, your team may have lost with such a rule...

bye, erps
      
dea1
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2007

Messages: 2287
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 00:41
TRB erps schrieb am Mon, 22 September 2008 20:50

Can't understand that the proposal is from you. Remember last year, your team may have lost with such a rule...


Completely wrong, erps - and you know it - so please leave it at that!
Staycool always said he could not play longer than the specified time.
His opponent agreed.
Had the opponent not agreed they would have played at some other time.
BTW you may have realized that staycool is not playing this year - guess why?
There ARE people who think they should not play NC if they cannot meet the needs of everyone else due to business or family reasons.

TRB erps schrieb am Mon, 22 September 2008 20:50


3) Please don't do a pressure on players that need more time.


So far I can follow ...

TRB erps schrieb am Mon, 22 September 2008 20:50


And it is my freedom to make a pause after a bad loss or a 0:2.


... but now I definitely can't. That's exactly the worst thing to do in my opinion. No, you should NOT have that freedom.
That's the worst and most unsportsmanlike thing to do.
No sport would ever allow for that.
As TTR is not really 'a sport' but still a game (even if competitive) I understand that we allow for some things to hinder you from playing. But that's surely the one WE DO NOT WANT!
If anyone seconds the idea that you can simply delay your match in case you might be losing that's the point where my last action as captain is to retract my team!
      
SKMorefield
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 620
Enregistré(e) en :
January 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 01:38
I am willing to serve as a 'rules' TD if the board votes for it. To this point the board has worked pretty well to resolve disputes, though... so... either way is fine with me.

That said, there is a third option. I don't mind (as I have to this point a couple of times) throwing in my 2 cents on issues and acting as a facilitator with the board. If a major issue arises, the captains can just email or PM me and if it's so big that I don't think I can handle it (or it's too big a controversy) I'll call for a board vote. How's that? Cool


Scott
      
thekid
Senior Member
Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

Messages: 1054
Enregistré(e) en :
December 2004
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 02:00
So dea, what specific instance are you complaining about this year?
      
dea1
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2007

Messages: 2287
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 09:35
The only 'specific instance' I'm currently complaining about, is erps's post.

By saying that he wants the freedom for a pause after a loss he effectively encourages people to do that.
If more people start delaying matches (and if his post stand without contradiction they will) the NC ends up in chaos and is unplayable (in my opinion).

I favour a rule that demands all games to be played in a row if a players wants that (always did - sometimes it's hard enough to find one convenient date for both players - especially when the time zone difference is huge).
I can live with a rule that allows for breaks if a player cannot play longer than a specific time (as a matter of courtesy he should announce that to his opponent before the games).
In both version pauses due to unforeseen happenings must of course be OK (if water starts dropping down my ceiling even I would stop playing Smile )
But I can not live with the encouragement to stop playing because you lose (and I think you don't encourage that either - otherwise you would have stopped playing after 2 games on Saturday not after you won the 3rd)

Yes kid, the incentive to ask for a vote came when I saw the lobby discussion after your games on Saturday. It showed that we should have a rule - whatever it is - in order to avoid such discussions.
      
Alleyooper
Member
Cadet

Messages: 42
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2007
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 09:38
Hi,

No affront intended to Scott - i'd noticed however that he had said he had limited time (but would be happy to serve on a panel of TDs in the event of a dispute). There is no need for me if Scott is willing to facilitate/handle major issues

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 23 September 2008 09:39]

      
toutoune - Morgon
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2014

Messages: 1808
Enregistré(e) en :
March 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 11:17
without offense to anybody, here is the RED TGV Vote
1. No
2. No
      
toutoune - Morgon
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2014

Messages: 1808
Enregistré(e) en :
March 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 11:22
TRB erps écrit le Mon, 22 September 2008 20:50

And it is my freedom to make a pause after a bad loss or a 0:2.



Shocked

just imagine in football, a team delay the rest of the game after the other team scored 2 goals...

YELLOW CARD!
      
erps
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 1633
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 11:24
Hi

dea: How on earth will you decide if someone says he received a sudden call from his ill mother or is doing this for tactic? As you may have mentioned i have always played my games in a row. But due to some circumstances i am currently not able to guarantee that anymore and i am not willing to accept a loss even if there are plenty days to play for the whole round.

There are a lot sports that allow for time-outs in a bad streak. And if i am remember correctly the biggest "mind" sports chess used to allow players to delay matches for days.

So if i say it before i can do this? Absurd. Now i will always state at the beginning that i may only able to play one game. And after the first game another game. What is the gain in doing a rule you can't force? We have 10 (!!) days to play a match of 5 games, plenty enough time to do this in one or two sessions.

The information that staycool had informed before the match of the time limit was never coming through to me. I was not able to watch the whole match last year. And it doesn't matter, because for me is no difference if you say it before or do this during the match. I had players in every tournament on the other side that asked for this (and of course for tactical reasons), no problem at all. It's absurd to force a player to play if they are feeling really bad at this moment. Of course making only a pause of a an hour or resuming the match the same day in the evening may be the better solution (the best IS to play all games in a row!).

But no rules needed here.

bye, erps

P.S. Toutoune: to compare this with football is quite absurd and you know that. We have a highly different thing here: We are no pros, we have family/work/other things to do, every game is a single event and we don't have 90 minutes, we have 10 days! And if the team in football that lay BEHIND delays the game there will be no yellow cards... That happens only if the leading team delays the time Smile

AT_dea1 schrieb am Tue, 23 September 2008 00:41


If anyone seconds the idea that you can simply delay your match in case you might be losing that's the point where my last action as captain is to retract my team!


If anyone seconds the idea that you can force any player to play games in a row if there is plenty of time in the round left and the player didn't want this for any (unknown) reason, that's the point where my last action as captain is to retract myself from this game.

So what? Is blackmailing the community lately the new ttr sport? I think we have a problem here, or? And i am not forcing my opinion on my team as you may see.




[Mis à jour le: Tue, 23 September 2008 11:39]

      
thekid
Senior Member
Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

Messages: 1054
Enregistré(e) en :
December 2004
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 13:29
AT_dea1 wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 03:35

But I can not live with the encouragement to stop playing because you lose (and I think you don't encourage that either - otherwise you would have stopped playing after 2 games on Saturday not after you won the 3rd)

Yes kid, the incentive to ask for a vote came when I saw the lobby discussion after your games on Saturday. It showed that we should have a rule - whatever it is - in order to avoid such discussions.



What discussion was there? There shouldn't have been one. As you can see below, I already said I probably wouldn't be able to play them all but would then be able to finish at her originally requested time of 2am my time. I could play a game or 2 at that time but not 5 which I had already told her. After our 3 games she couldn't play again at that time. I had asked to start at 1am where I could play them all, I had stuff to do Sunday morning so the extra hour of sleep was needed, but 7am her time wasn't good for her. There has been no problem in discussing with her or scheduling this match at all, so I don't understand the problem.

Sure I would have loved to have left after the first two games, but i didn't because it wouldn't have been the right thing to do, if it was 1-1 I would have stopped there.


theKid wrote on Sat, 20 September 2008 16:33

theKid vs. TIC - U32

Tonight Saturday the 20th 7pm Eastern

Bedtime for the kids, but hopefully not theKid, we'll get in as many as we can. Maybe finishing later that night around 2am, we'll see.



And for all of the discussions and impressions that I don't play my matches all at once I will point you to last year's NC. In my 7 matches, 5 were played all at once. The only 2 that weren't were against both Austrian teams, where they both left by surprise in the middle of the match. There was no discussion of time constraints on their part beforehand. And one of them never returned to finish the match either. Yet you never heard a complaint from me that how dare they "surprise" me by leaving. Yet it's funny that people complain when I discuss it beforehand.

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 23 September 2008 13:39]

      
FLOP Hecki
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 1097
Enregistré(e) en :
October 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 14:10
Hey thekid and others,

this pause between the third and fourth game was not the best solution, but our team and especially U32 can live with that. No problem. We hope for a nice and fair fight next weekend and think, this whole discussion here in the forum is totally exaggerated. So we should declare that there is nothing personal between the two players (U32 and thekid).

Hey folks, it's just an online game, nothing more. So please calm down.

Hecki
      
thekid
Senior Member
Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

Messages: 1054
Enregistré(e) en :
December 2004
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 14:28
TIC - Hecki wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 08:10

Hey thekid and others,

this pause between the third and fourth game was not the best solution, but our team and especially U32 can live with that. No problem. We hope for a nice and fair fight next weekend and think, this whole discussion here in the forum is totally exaggerated. So we should declare that there is nothing personal between the two players (U32 and thekid).

Hey folks, it's just an online game, nothing more. So please calm down.

Hecki




theKid wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 07:29

There has been no problem in discussing with her or scheduling this match at all, so I don't understand the problem.



I have no problem as I already stated.

      
Nayeli
Senior Member
Vainqueur GoF Team Cup 2009

Messages: 349
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 14:36
Hi,

sure, I'm not Cpt. - just to tell you what happened to me in first or second NC. Cannot remember right now.
I played with a bronchitis and fever! As you can imagine I really felt bad. It was round about 11 pm and after 3:1 for me I asked my opponent to continue another day, but he dit not want.

I would never do that again so I agree with erps.

Ciao

Nay


      
toutoune - Morgon
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2014

Messages: 1808
Enregistré(e) en :
March 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 15:41
OLE Nayeli écrit le Tue, 23 September 2008 14:36

I played with a bronchitis and fever! (...) and after 3:1 for me (...)



Stop the medicine! Rolling Eyes
I personnally doubt you can achieve that miracle without fever. Very Happy
      
Nayeli
Senior Member
Vainqueur GoF Team Cup 2009

Messages: 349
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 16:49
Toutoune, die letzten 4 Worte von Adenauers Zitat gehen an dich.
      
*player24262
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 1710
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2004
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 21:48
no need of a TD, whoever he is
1. No
2. No
      
*player396123
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 219
Enregistré(e) en :
November 2007
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Tue, 23 September 2008 22:28
For those with limited language skills (in other words...Americans) Very Happy

OLE Nayeli wrote on Tue, 23 September 2008 10:49

Toutoune, die letzten 4 Worte von Adenauers Zitat gehen an dich.



Translation: Toutoune, the last 4 words of the Adenauers' quotation go to you

The quote in Nay's signature
Ich bin wie ich bin - Die Einen kennen mich, die Anderen können mich (K.Adenauer)

Translation: I am as I am - the one know me, the others can me (K.Adenauer)

That is the translation in full (from babelfish). Interestingly enough however is what happens if you ONLY use the last 4 words (as Nay said to TT) of the Adenauers quotation with babelfish. Shocked Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Confused

That is quite an offer Nay Nay! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

      
*player271300
Member

Messages: 47
Enregistré(e) en :
October 2006
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Wed, 24 September 2008 08:19
As I am new to this please feel free to fill me in on anything I need to know about voting, etc.

If we have someone ready and willing to take on these duties and keep everything smooth, that's great. The fact that sometimes people have busy lives outside of TTR is understandable. And the fact that we have people that can do a great job of it is beneficial to us all. Thanks to both SKM and Alleyooper for donating their efforts.

For the CAN team, we vote
1) Yes
2) Yes (assuming SKM is not going to do it all)

express--
      
erps
Senior Member

Pages Perso
Messages: 1633
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Thu, 25 September 2008 18:44
Hi

Hey, where is the new lineup???? I am thinking about changing my vote now!!!! Razz

bye, erps
      
CAT-suburu
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2010

Messages: 265
Enregistré(e) en :
October 2005
Re:NC BOARD DECISION THREAD - third vote Sun, 28 September 2008 16:45
1) Yes
2) SKMorefield, as he has agreed to take care of any rule issue that may appear.
      
    
Sujet précédent:Message from Peter de Zeeuw
Sujet suivant:TRB New Captain and Board Member
Aller au forum: