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Angel 6
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  Strange Rating (DoW crew) Wed, 15 June 2005 23:21
Hi dear DoW crew,

there is a player named Educated Idiot, ranked 82.

He played against a person once, and against DumbBot 24 times - that´s all!

I don't think this deserves a high ranking, maybe the ranking could be corrected?!
(and maybe the ranking calculations could be adjusted in some sensible way to avoid such things)
      
*player44342
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Wed, 15 June 2005 23:48
ELO ratings are infallible and perfect.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 15 June 2005 23:49]

      
WhiteTrain
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Wed, 15 June 2005 23:56
obviously there seems to be a problem even if REK cannot see it. Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool
      
WhiteTrain
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 00:06
Same thing with "riano" ranked 91 presently there are only wins against bots, he lost almost all other matches.
      
thekid
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 00:19
If this guy were to get into the 1700's, I can't even imagine how many games he would need to win to increase 1 point, as the bot has a rating of 800 or so. It would take him forever and he would lose some eventually. Wow I can't believe that people are actually looking at people ranked that low.
      
SKMorefield
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 04:04
thekid wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 18:19

If this guy were to get into the 1700's, I can't even imagine how many games he would need to win to increase 1 point, as the bot has a rating of 800 or so. It would take him forever and he would lose some eventually. Wow I can't believe that people are actually looking at people ranked that low.



I was going to say maybe he played this person but that wouldn't be the case since he plays dumbbots. Laughing

In any case, I think this is another bug similar to the bug that allowed one to play dumbbots to stay rated. If it were possible to advance to 1700 playing dumbbots only that would be absurd. I don't think any points should be awarded at all for playing dumbbots. In fact, I played one awhile back just to see if I got a point and if I recall I didn't get any. So this bug might have manifested itself recently.

Brice?



      
*player24262
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 07:29
better : have a look on the provisionnal ranking table : thedude

he will jump into the top 10 very soon !!!


Laughing Laughing Laughing
      
pilke
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 08:26
I didn't want to write about this subject here because I thought there would be more lazy people using it. So I wrote to DoW about it and Brice promised to fix soon some bad sides of provisional state playing. I don't know yet which ones.

I think I got the points with tiuku and sieni much too easily. TheDude, educated idiot and some others got the points even more easily, because of the DumbBot mistake.

Educated Idiot and the others didn't get any points from the DumbBot's. They got the points from winning in one game. But the mistake was that the DumbBot games were counted to those 20 games.

I think the formula used in established state playing are sencible, but I don't like the formula of provisional state playing at all. It uses weighted average and gives much too big part to the score of playing partner. I think that the place in Top100 should be earned with good playing and hard work, but now it is very easy to get there in provisional state. If one just knows how to use bad sides of formula, it doesn't matter how bad player one is. This possibility is available even if the DumbBot mistake is fixed soon.

In provisional state people can get points from losing a game and lose points even if they win the game. Tiuku lost points that way in one game even though I won. Now I know the formula by heart even though I don't need it. I really hope that the biggest bad sides of the formula are fixed soon.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 16 June 2005 08:52]

      
ElSoyokaze
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 08:56
Y'know, I was going to do just this just to mess with SKM. =)

I've played one game with my other account. It was a four player game with womble, rek, and pilke. I came in third, beating out only pilke. Because of this (as I found out MUCH later) I had a score of 1702. So, as an experiment, I was just going to play nineteen dumbbots and jump into the top ten just to see a reaction, then let the account die after fifteen days.

Well, I lost interest, but it seems a couple others beat me to the punch, too.

I'm pretty sure the account's off the top provisional board, but you can still see GuidoHunter's score.

--ElSoy

http://andy.mikee385.com
      
Angel 6
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 09:28
léachris schrieb am Thu, 16 June 2005 07:29

better : have a look on the provisionnal ranking table : thedude

he will jump into the top 10 very soon !!!


Laughing Laughing Laughing


I think thedude got most of his extremely high ranking by losing to thekid (29:130). Confused
This is ridiculous!
      
*player24262
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 13:15
I know the formula used in the provisionnal ranking.

the number of games is taken into account to establish the ranking.

Thus, the FIRST game can give more 200 points.

That's what happened to thedude.

The problem, is that if he plays 19 times again dumbots or even lose against top ranked players, his score won't change. And he'll get into the establish ranking tables with more than 1700 points ( he had 1742 the last time I checked ) .

thedude only played 3 times against human but strangely against top ranked players ( hoping to increase his ranking of course ! )

I sent him/her a PM to say that it was cheating .

No answer yet !!!

what a glorious way to be in the top ten

      
*player115253
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 18:44
guest11xxx schrieb

This from a person, based on the game history, plays a majority of his games vs beginner/unranked players.



reck schrieb

I'm sure you know as well as any other high rated player that the easiest way to climb rank is to play low ranked players.


This was written to thekid because he "only" plays low ranked players.

léachris schrieb

... only dumbots and top ranked players !!

be careful, it's like CHEATING !...


This was written to me for only playing top ranked players.

PLEASE tell me, what is the RIGHT way? You are around here much longer. Tell me the right way, please!

Btw, I play top ranked players so I gain many and lose few points. I'm sure you don't care about losing points but I love mine Smile.

I think some people spend more time with studying players histories than playing the game.


Quote:

Look, this guy did this...

Quote:

And this guy did that...

Quote:

This player didn't do this...


Come on, what is this about, man?
      
*player24262
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 19:10
TheDude écrit le Thu, 16 June 2005 18:44


Come on, what is this about, man?



It's about someone who thinks he can enter the top 10 with only one won game against a human

you take advantage of the formula used in the provisionnal ranking

Don't compare yourself to thekid: he is an established player, who deserves his points

that's all !

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 16 June 2005 19:15]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 19:20
TheDude wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 12:44

PLEASE tell me, what is the RIGHTway? You are around here much longer. Tell me the right way, please!


As far as I can tell you have done nothing wrong. You are just taking advantage of the system as-is. It's the DoW computers which are whacked here. I have no doubt the problem will get fixed soon.

Quote:


Btw, I play top ranked players so I gain many and lose few points. I'm sure you don't care about losing points but I love mine Smile.



Now you gain points because you are provisional (I have no idea why), but when you become established you will lose points unless you can actually win these games against top players. To do this you will need more than dumbbots for practice.

This is assuming, of course, that you are not a top player's dummy account.

Quote:


I think some people spend more time with studying players histories than playing the game.



When you fly below the radar you don't catch as much flak.



Best,
SKM

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 16 June 2005 20:37]

      
*player24262
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 20:10
SKMorefield écrit le Thu, 16 June 2005 19:20

Now you gain points because you are provisional (I have no idea why


very simple SKM

let's call A and B the players; if A is provisionnal and B is established, the formula is :

r'A = ( rA*nA+rB + 200* S1) / ( nA + 1)

an exemple :

player A plays his first game nA=1, the previous score of player A is rA= 1500
the previous score of player B is rB = 1600
player A wins, s1 = 1


the new score of player A is 1650 ( 150 points won in one game)

the games against bots don't give any point

but I lkonw( I have information too Wink ) that the system will change !






[Mis à jour le: Thu, 16 June 2005 20:11]

      
*player115253
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 22:33
léachris schrieb am Thu, 16 June 2005 20:10

SKMorefield écrit le Thu, 16 June 2005 19:20

Now you gain points because you are provisional (I have no idea why


very simple SKM

let's call A and B the players; if A is provisionnal and B is established, the formula is :

r'A = ( rA*nA+rB + 200* S1) / ( nA + 1)

an exemple :

player A plays his first game nA=1, the previous score of player A is rA= 1500
the previous score of player B is rB = 1600
player A wins, s1 = 1


the new score of player A is 1650 ( 150 points won in one game)

the games against bots don't give any point

but I lkonw( I have information too Wink ) that the system will change !



WRONG!!

The new score of player A would be 1800(!!!). Because nA=0!!! Now you have something to complain about! 300 Points in one single game Shocked .
      
*player44342
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 23:12
léachris wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 22:29

better : have a look on the provisionnal ranking table : thedude

he will jump into the top 10 very soon !!!


Laughing Laughing Laughing



Yeah, this technique isn't really a secret. Pilke mentioned the possibility of it to me a long time ago and from the provisional rating formula it is pretty easy to see how it works.

What the player who has struggled at times to beat the Dumbbot will do after getting out of the provisional rankings is another matter. I'll be more than happy to play you TheDude, though I think it could be viewed as cheating if I do... Wink


[Mis à jour le: Thu, 16 June 2005 23:14]

      
*player24262
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Thu, 16 June 2005 23:52
TheDude écrit le Thu, 16 June 2005 22:33

WRONG!!

The new score of player A would be 1800(!!!). Because nA=0!!! Now you have something to complain about! 300 Points in one single game Shocked .

you seem to know all that very well !!

and you seem to know what is on the forum very well too ( quoting posts that a newcomer wouldn't even know)

do you like excel ?????????

( ok, I probably go too far but ... )
      
thekid
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Fri, 17 June 2005 00:36
Interesting theory lea, I was wondering where and when she might show up. But the person I played was bad, as evidenced by the crushing score, well me being great also might have something to do with it, had that throw that in there. Razz I am suprised they beat the other 2 humans, they are good, and played airbus so close.
      
SKMorefield
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Re:Strange Rating (DoW crew) Fri, 17 June 2005 14:02
thekid wrote on Thu, 16 June 2005 18:36

Interesting theory lea, I was wondering where and when she might show up. But the person I played was bad, as evidenced by the crushing score, well me being great also might have something to do with it, had that throw that in there. Razz I am suprised they beat the other 2 humans, they are good, and played airbus so close.



The irony is she/he was probably a 'Dude' the whole time. Shocked
      
Peter de Zeeuw
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Welcome To TheDude Fri, 17 June 2005 20:47
Yo TheDude dude!

I don't have any problems with you. Play however you like and enjoy it.

Just a little warning: don't ever cross my tracks... Twisted Evil

I'll be waiting! Grin

D.I.S.
      
WhiteTrain
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Re:Welcome To TheDude Fri, 17 June 2005 21:27
I think a lot of people will be glad to play him Twisted Evil
      
*player115253
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Re:Welcome To TheDude Fri, 01 July 2005 01:51
Thanks for the flowers Cool

The good news is: DumbBot games don't count no more! Nod
      
    
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