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thekid
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Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

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December 2004
When Europe comes Mon, 20 June 2005 19:34
Just a couple of questions I had floating around in my head:

1. Will you play it more than original?

2. Would you expect the same people to be at the top of the rankings?

My answers are 1. At first I will, then I don't know as I have never played it yet, so don't know if I will like it as much. 2. While I don't think I will be bad at it, I'm not sure if I'll be one of the best right away, might take some time to figure out the nuances.
      
SKMorefield
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Re:When Europe comes Mon, 20 June 2005 20:00
thekid wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 13:34

Just a couple of questions I had floating around in my head:

1. Will you play it more than original?

2. Would you expect the same people to be at the top of the rankings?

My answers are 1. At first I will, then I don't know as I have never played it yet, so don't know if I will like it as much. 2. While I don't think I will be bad at it, I'm not sure if I'll be one of the best right away, might take some time to figure out the nuances.



No, I doubt I'll play it more than the original although I'll play it. From what I've heard, Europe is more fun when getting together with friends but, and this leads to my answer to question 2, there is more luck involved so I'd say the rankings will fluctuate more, with not as many dominant players.

Just my guess...
      
Rode katers
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January 2005
Re:When Europe comes Mon, 20 June 2005 21:37
I'm sure I won't play it as much as the original. Although it has more features I don't think this game will get a lot of people addicted. Simply because of the greater luckfactor and the smaller strategyfactor.

Because you will always have one big ticket and some smaller the games will probably be much more alike then in the original.
Bored Bored Bored

So I don't think we will find the same players at the top in the European version, simply because they will get bored too soon and go back to the original.

Or maybe you will find players like me at the top. The ones who just can't quite make it to the real top in the original version and need that bit of extra luck. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Pur
Rode katers
      
*player39229
Senior Member

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November 2004
Re:When Europe comes Tue, 21 June 2005 03:12
In multiplayer games, the major (and problematic) luck factor is the random deal of long tickets. (Yes, I know, play D#####, but that doesn't work so well with four or five players.) TTR:E greatly reduces this factor.

The luck of the ticket draw is still a factor - when I played last night and drew three short tickets that had absolutely no overlap with my long ticket, I knew I was unlikely to win - but it is actually a smaller factor except possibly in two-player games.

What does change a lot is that blocking style that so many online players like. You can't simply block an opponent out of his destinations, because he'll simply play a station to go straight through your block. The block still costs, but it isn't worth it unless you also advance your own position by playing it. I think it will be found that the strategic differences between 2-, 3- and 4/5-player games will decrease.
      
*player97287
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April 2005
Re:When Europe comes Tue, 21 June 2005 09:51
tjandjahall :

The luck of the ticket draw is still a factor - when I played last night and drew three short tickets that had absolutely no overlap with my long ticket, I knew I was unlikely to win - but it is actually a smaller factor except possibly in two-player games.

An alternative in Europe is that you can keep short mission and still win.

First it gives you way more flexibility. You don't have to complete huge paths, your paths are also more flexible andyou're practically unpredictable (unlike the six big tickets).

Second you can draw new tickets later. It's much less costly than in the US version.

Though you can have bad or good tickets, you do not lose a Euro game with starting tickets alone.

Quote:

What does change a lot is that blocking style that so many online players like. You can't simply block an opponent out of his destinations, because he'll simply play a station to go straight through your block.

And that's still pretty costly to the opponent. Blocks are not lethal anymore but they are a real pain. You're gonna lose points, cards and a turn. Plus you often want to put the station at the end of the game (maybe you'll go around the block, or maybe you don't want to show you need that path, or maybe you have something better to do at the time). But the final turns are usually decisive! So blocks are really a big inconvenience, though not lethal.

This is 2/3 players, where you can block double paths. Blocks at 4/5 players come less voluntarily, just because everybody needs the same resources.
      
JohnK
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Re:When Europe comes Wed, 22 June 2005 04:19
Hullo. TheKid,

In a message of Mon, 20 June 2005 13:34, you wrote:


Just a couple of questions I had floating around in my head:

1. Will you play it more than original?



I don't know whether I'll play it more than the original, but will certainly try it out to see if I want to play it often or not. Europe offers a few different challenges than the Original, to be honest, and that may have a lot to do with how the game plays for me.

You wrote:


2. Would you expect the same people to be at the top of the rankings?



Now that is a tough question... Hmm, I think that some of the ranked players who have played lots of the Original game may have problems in the Europe version, since the same strategies don't work there necessarily. Tunnels and ferries add to the complexity, and stations limit the effectiveness of blocks. I suspect the higher-ranked players may have a "learning curve" in this one, but after a while, I don't think they'll have too many difficulties.

However, bear in mind there may be some players who play the on-line version of Europe who might not have played the on-line version of the Original. That could make a difference in the rankings as well.

      
JohnK
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Re:When Europe comes Wed, 22 June 2005 04:29
Hullo, SKM,

In a message of Mon, 20 June 2005 14:00, you wrote:



No, I doubt I'll play it more than the original although I'll play it. From what I've heard, Europe is more fun when getting together with friends but, and this leads to my answer to question 2, there is more luck involved so I'd say the rankings will fluctuate more, with not as many dominant players.



Hmm, I don't know if Europe is more fun with getting together with friends, since I've found that to be the case with the Original as well. Thst said, I think there is a bit more luck to Europe as you say, but at the same time, the fact that everyone begins with a truly Long Route destinstion ticket (even though you can discard it) makes things more interesting. There are a lot more short routes in the game, so just because a player places trains down at Erzulum or Brest doesn't mean they have a long route. On the other hand, placing it at Cadiz likely does. Smile

As to whether there's more luck involved in Europe than the Original, I don't know. A lot of the games I've played in on-line so far have seen me have more than my share of bad luck. Smile

      
*player39229
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Re:When Europe comes Wed, 22 June 2005 06:28
redPEPPER wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 17:51

tjandjahall :

The luck of the ticket draw is still a factor - when I played last night and drew three short tickets that had absolutely no overlap with my long ticket, I knew I was unlikely to win - but it is actually a smaller factor except possibly in two-player games.

An alternative in Europe is that you can keep short mission and still win.

Nope, that wouldn't have worked either. With four players in the game, the odds of one of them having a good combo using a long ticket was quite good, and indeed this occurred. I managed second place, but first place was a long way ahead with a very good combination of tickets - a long ticket that was almost her two short tickets placed end-to-end.

As it was, I think I could have done better had I discarded one or more tickets - whether my long ticket or a certain short one would have been better, I'm not sure. The change may have boosted me to second, as I was only narrowly behind second, but there was no way I was going up to first that way.

Flexibility and unpredictability would not have helped me, as nobody ever attempted to block me. I just didn't have the points to win. Even blocking the leader to cost her points would simply have sunk me further behind second place.

Quote:

Though you can have bad or good tickets, you do not lose a Euro game with starting tickets alone.

Not absolutely, no, but the game can certainly be stacked against you, especially in larger games.

Quote:

And that's still pretty costly to the opponent. Blocks are not lethal anymore but they are a real pain. You're gonna lose points, cards and a turn.

Yes, getting blocked still hurts. However, getting blocked often doesn't hurt the blockee very much worse than it hurts the blockee. In fact, the play of a station often saves cards, rather than costing them, because the play of a station is usually uses less cards than claiming the track.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 22 June 2005 06:28]

      
*player97287
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Re:When Europe comes Wed, 22 June 2005 12:16
tjandjahall :

Flexibility and unpredictability would not have helped me, as nobody ever attempted to block me.
Flexibility is not only against others, it's also for yourself: you can take better tracks if you don't need to fight for specific tracks.

I don't know the specifics of your game. It's very possible that you could do nothing in this case. What I'm saying is that "bad" tickets seldom seal the fate from the start. I've seen many occurences that demonstrated this.

[quote]getting blocked often doesn't hurt the blockee very much worse than it hurts the blockee.[quote]
You mean the blocker of course. This depends on the situation but you can block on big tracks, which scores points, or you can block in a way that you can later use... Just like the USA. Blocks are most costly at 4 players because it's harder to block (double ways) and other players (except the blockee) sometimes also benefit from your block.

Quote:

In fact, the play of a station often saves cards, rather than costing them, because the play of a station is usually uses less cards than claiming the track.
Cards are ideally turned into points, the more points the better (ratio = 1 for 1 or 2 tracks, up to ratio 2.625 for the 8 track). Using cards to put a station has a negative ratio since you lose 4 points per station (ratio -2 if you use 3 stations).
      
*player24262
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Re:When Europe comes Wed, 22 June 2005 16:21
thekid wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 13:20

Now that they have released Europe and kept the rankings combined anyone who wants to be #1 can be. I'll be playing a lot of Europe so you can have fun watching me plummet in the rankings, I need to learn the rules first. See it never was all about the rankings with me, if it were all I would play is the original. I think they should have kept the rankings seperate because it is in their own words a completely different game, at least that's what they say so you can shell out the $$$$$ to buy another of their games. It would have been interesting to see if the same people would have remained on top in Europe but alas no chance in that now.

Peter de Zeeuw écrit le Wed, 22 June 2005 13:35


I agree with TheKid!

I don't like the combined rankings either. Sad

D.I.S.


pilke écrit le Wed, 22 June 2005 14:52

I don't like the compined rankings either at all Sad Separated rankings would have added value, now it is doing the opposite. After a while when people learn to play well the totally different europe game, the ranking list top 20 won't show who is good in original game Sad

I would love to have separated rankings. If that is not possible, it would be nice to see in the game history, which game was played, the original or Europe one. Is this possible Brice?

I hope you thekid learn to play europe game fast. Fortunately you can lose 30 points before dropping any places in ranking. I think I won't play much the europe version. I might start to play if it turns out to be not so luck based as I think now. Anyway I will use account tiuku to play europe games.


I don't understand all of you

thekid says he doesn't care of ranking but doesn't like the combined rankings

peter is not so high ranked, no real danger(and you can train with bots Very Happy )

pilke has 3 accounts : keep one for each kind of games ( or isn't it enough for you ? Mad )

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 22 June 2005 16:22]

      
pilke
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Re:When Europe comes Wed, 22 June 2005 16:46
léachris wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 17:21

pilke has 3 accounts : keep one for each kind of games ( or isn't it enough for you ? Mad )

This is what I said I will do. pilke 2-player ticket to ride original, tiuku 3-5 player ticket ride original and all europe games. 3rd for practising so I won't get undeserved points to other accounts.

I am sorry that you are Mad Mad to me nowadays. I haven't purposely done anything to make you feel so bad. I hope you feel soon better Smile
      
thekid
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Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

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Re:When Europe comes Wed, 22 June 2005 23:14
My two feelings are seperate and distinct. I don't play for rating but do find it interesting. That is why I think there should be 2 seperate rankings, but I really don't care enough to complain about it. I do think it will favor the people who only play the original 2 player variety. I haven't finished a Europe game yet, got booted by server but my initial read is significantly more luck involved, but we'll see if I can come up with a strategy around it. Look forward to the first Europe tourney.
      
    
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