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Razamanaz
Junior Member

Messages: 26
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March 2005
HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 00:56
Hi folks !

since a long time i played in the top twenty,a lot of you knows that !
Everytime i played against all players which i could get,esspecially to the top ranked players,in case i can took more points for an victory as against an low ranked player,
the reason was that i could'nt be ranked better as No.8.!
But since two weeks i tryed a new way,most of time i took only low ranked players and only a few top players,the result is,i got up to NO.4.
but i'm not glad about that,because thats the way i don't like!
tell me what i should do !
climb the mountain as thekid or should i play against all the top once to have fun again,and not to look for NO.1


yours


RAZAMANAZ

He thekid,forgive me for this thread,because i know you're better as me,but this way will bring me to the top,you agree ?
      
*player24262
Senior Member

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July 2004
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 01:15
fun or dream, dream or fun ..... not an easy choice !

I've only one thing to tell you : do what you think to be the most important for you NOW.

And never regreat your choice !

It's absolutely sure that playing only with underdogs will bring you higher and higher ...

But don't forget top ranked players ( at least don't forget me Wink!!!!!!! )

cu you soon !
      
thekid
Senior Member
Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

Messages: 1054
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December 2004
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 02:18
I disagree. People have tried and no one else has been able to do it. Especially what I have noticed of the lower ranked people is that they play other than 2 player games. This makes them rated lower than their 2 player ability. It is extremely difficult to keep winning, no matter who you play. Sometimes it takes 3 wins to get a point but a loss to almost anyone outside of the top 20 costs 8. I like to give everybody the shot I didn't get when I was rising the ranks. It is really difficult when everyone knows who you are and gives you their best game every time. I didn't get here by playing just the lowly people as evidenced by earlier posts about my record. Feel free to try, I don't care, but the easiest way to catch me will be to sweep me in the tourney. Shocked
      
Peter de Zeeuw
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2012

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March 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 10:09
What's this? A new competitor for the World Title? And... Razamanaz? That's funny, because when I played you in the First Round of the 2nd Tournament I had this idea about you being an emotionless killing machine, drinking beer and smoking cigarettes and not really caring about his ranking. After all, in your PM you said you hoped that I would play for fun and not being fanatic, that it didn't matter who would win. Well, of course it mattered! I wanted to win! But, alas... you destroyed me.

Anyway, we had this "fun" D.I.S.cussion 2 weeks ago I believe, started by Léachris. I still have fun, and there is no specific strategy that I use to climb the rankings. I enjoy playing against top players but I also play a lot of others matches. I play Triple Threat matches (3 player), Battle Royals (4 player) and even Royal Rumbles (5 player). I'm not afraid to lose. I like the challenge. It keeps you sharp.

But despite you going all "soft" all of the sudden (and what's this thing going on between you and Léachris?!), I still think you are a great player who rightfully deserves to be in that top 10. Hope we meet again some day.

See you around, Raz,

D.I.S.
      
thekid
Senior Member
Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

Messages: 1054
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December 2004
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 13:20
Now that they have released Europe and kept the rankings combined anyone who wants to be #1 can be. I'll be playing a lot of Europe so you can have fun watching me plummet in the rankings, I need to learn the rules first. See it never was all about the rankings with me, if it were all I would play is the original. I think they should have kept the rankings seperate because it is in their own words a completely different game, at least that's what they say so you can shell out the $$$$$ to buy another of their games. It would have been interesting to see if the same people would have remained on top in Europe but alas no chance in that now.
      
Peter de Zeeuw
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Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2012

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March 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 13:35
thekid wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 13:20

Now that they have released Europe and kept the rankings combined anyone who wants to be #1 can be. I'll be playing a lot of Europe so you can have fun watching me plummet in the rankings, I need to learn the rules first. See it never was all about the rankings with me, if it were all I would play is the original. I think they should have kept the rankings seperate because it is in their own words a completely different game, at least that's what they say so you can shell out the $$$$$ to buy another of their games. It would have been interesting to see if the same people would have remained on top in Europe but alas no chance in that now.


I agree with TheKid!

I don't like the combined rankings either. Sad

D.I.S.
      
*player97287
Senior Member

Messages: 187
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April 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 14:09
If you care about that, you can always make a new account for Europe.
      
pilke
Member

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January 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 14:52
I don't like the compined rankings either at all Sad Separated rankings would have added value, now it is doing the opposite. After a while when people learn to play well the totally different europe game, the ranking list top 20 won't show who is good in original game Sad

I would love to have separated rankings. If that is not possible, it would be nice to see in the game history, which game was played, the original or Europe one. Is this possible Brice?

I hope you thekid learn to play europe game fast. Fortunately you can lose 30 points before dropping any places in ranking. I think I won't play much the europe version. I might start to play if it turns out to be not so luck based as I think now. Anyway I will use account tiuku to play europe games.
      
*player24262
Senior Member

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July 2004
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 15:53
pilke, peter, thekid,

Is it possible to write your posts in the appropriate topic : " when europe comes" ?

all this has nothing to do with the first thread

thanks !

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 22 June 2005 15:54]

      
SKMorefield
Senior Member

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Messages: 620
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January 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 22 June 2005 16:35
Razamanaz wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 18:56

Hi folks !

since a long time i played in the top twenty,a lot of you knows that !
Everytime i played against all players which i could get,esspecially to the top ranked players,in case i can took more points for an victory as against an low ranked player,
the reason was that i could'nt be ranked better as No.8.!
But since two weeks i tryed a new way,most of time i took only low ranked players and only a few top players,the result is,i got up to NO.4.
but i'm not glad about that,because thats the way i don't like!
tell me what i should do !
climb the mountain as thekid or should i play against all the top once to have fun again,and not to look for NO.1


yours


RAZAMANAZ

He thekid,forgive me for this thread,because i know you're better as me,but this way will bring me to the top,you agree ?



Very interesting. Obviously most of us have a lower percentage against the top 30, but then of course there is more to gain by winning and less to lose. However, I find too that if I get on a losing streak to top players I can console myself by playing a few random games and (usually) gaining easy victories.

BUT, as thekid said, losses to these players cost a LOT. I think it's legitimate either way.

I notice that thekid plays a good mix of top players and lower ranked. Not too much of one or the other. This is fine. On the other hand, our 'Cinderella' Jac, for instance, is currently rated 71... however 33 (yes, 33!!!) of her last 40 games have been against the top 100, most of those being top 50 at least. So she is obviously a better player than her ranking, which isn't shabby but could be much better were she to start picking on the 'little people.'

So that might lend some credence to your point, Raz. For my part, I like a decent mix. I'll have to continue to improve to make the top 10 that way though.

Best,
SKM
      
Angel 6
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2007

Messages: 1108
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November 2004
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Sat, 23 July 2005 22:20
Hi folks,

in the last 7 days I made a real effort to get to the top. Last time I tried this was in the end of 2004 (back then I fought against cheaters and wasn't successful).

My experience is not the same as Razamanaz', who said that playing weak opponents is the better strategy than playing strong opponents.

Against weak opposition (ELO-ranked around 1300) I need at least 90% wins just to hold my ranking of 1770. Alas, I couldn't avoid to lose some 10 games against weak players in the last week, so I don't managed more than 90%.
Once a player surprised me by laying six 6-streaks, so that I was to slow to get both of my tickets done AND a good road.
Once I played Europe unintendedly and lost narrowly.
Once I had a computer problem and DumbBot made one bad move, before I was back.
Twice I thought I would win easily, made a slight mistake, and the opponent surprised me by playing very well to the end and win.
Twice my opponent built a mediocre road, but bought 4 fulfilled tickets within 2 rounds.
Once I really was outplayed by a 1400-ELO-player.
...

Of course, I still might play better, but as I see no one came to the top by playing weak opponents.
I only managed to keep my ranking steady today because of narrow wins against WhiteTrain and thekid.
Probably, I should play top players more often to reach the top myself.

pilke got to 1847 by playing strong opponents, thekid even came to 1849 by playing weaker opponents mostly (correction because of pilke's post), but this just shows that those two really are the best, and not that only one specific strategy gets you to the top.

Michael aka Angel6

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 24 July 2005 12:00]

      
pilke
Member

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January 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Sun, 24 July 2005 07:58
Angel6 wrote on Sat, 23 July 2005 23:20

pilke almost got to 1850 by playing strong opponents, thekid had around 1840


The record of thekid is better than mine. He has had 1849. My record is 1847. I was amazed to get so high and took 1850 as my goal (my main goals are always dividable with 25) when I was close to it, but wasn't able to get there. So now I am just floating without a goal.
      
SKMorefield
Senior Member

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January 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Tue, 26 July 2005 19:50
Angel6 wrote on Sat, 23 July 2005 16:20

My experience is not the same as Razamanaz', who said that playing weak opponents is the better strategy than playing strong opponents.

Against weak opposition (ELO-ranked around 1300) I need at least 90% wins just to hold my ranking of 1770. Alas, I couldn't avoid to lose some 10 games against weak players in the last week, so I don't managed more than 90%.
Once a player surprised me by laying six 6-streaks, so that I was to slow to get both of my tickets done AND a good road.
Once I played Europe unintendedly and lost narrowly.
Once I had a computer problem and DumbBot made one bad move, before I was back.
Twice I thought I would win easily, made a slight mistake, and the opponent surprised me by playing very well to the end and win.
Twice my opponent built a mediocre road, but bought 4 fulfilled tickets within 2 rounds.
Once I really was outplayed by a 1400-ELO-player.
...



Interesting post. I generally try to avoid players who are more than 250-300 ELO points lower than me. This being the case, I also now prefer to join games instead of starting them because of the wonderful new feature that allows us to see a player's ELO ranking when they start a game. Very Happy And joining games allows me to avoid guests also, which is yet another bonus! This way I usually get at least 2 points for a win (instead of 1 or none!) and losses don't hurt quite so much.

Having said that, although I love to play top players when I can I prefer not to play 1600+ players ALL the time either because that is a good way to get on a losing streak fast. I find that there is not a tremendous amount of difference between 1600+ players, at least not as much as there is between a 1200 and a 1500 player. I can lose a game to someone like Jac or Thad just as easily as to a top 10, and I have a better winning percentage against some in the top 10 (and a horrible percentage against some!) than I do against some top 50's. That is not to say that players like Pilke, thekid, Rek, and Angel6 are not better players than the rest of us, because I think they are, just that the spread/difference between us in the top 50 isn't as great.

By the way, if anyone in the know has made it this far in my rambling post, can someone tell me the exact ELO spread at which you get a certain amount of points for a victory or lose points for a defeat? For some reason I can't find this in the archives... I know it's somewhere. Thanks!


Best,
SKM

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 26 July 2005 19:58]

      
pilke
Member

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January 2005
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 27 July 2005 13:10
SKMorefield wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 20:50

can someone tell me the exact ELO spread at which you get a certain amount of points for a victory or lose points for a defeat?


I am not sure if I understand your question correctly. If the both players are in established state, the gotten/lost points can be counted from the 4th formula in page ranking system formulas. The formula has 8 there where it is reading 32.

I did some calculations (I don't assure, there isn't any mistakes). I don't know how many desimals the system is using.

Difference in score - better ranked gets - better ranked loses

------- 0 ------------------ 4,00 ---------------------- 4,00
----- 50 ------------------ 3,43 ---------------------- 4,57
---- 100 ------------------ 2,88 ---------------------- 5,12
---- 150 ------------------ 2,37 ---------------------- 5,63
---- 200 ------------------ 1,92 ---------------------- 6,08
---- 250 ------------------ 1,53 ---------------------- 6,47
---- 300 ------------------ 1,21 ---------------------- 6,79
---- 350 ------------------ 0,94 ---------------------- 7,06
---- 400 ------------------ 0,73 ---------------------- 7,27
---- 450 ------------------ 0,56 ---------------------- 7,44
---- 500 ------------------ 0,43 ---------------------- 7,57
---- 550 ------------------ 0,32 ---------------------- 7,68
---- 600 ------------------ 0,25 ---------------------- 7,75
---- 650 ------------------ 0,19 ---------------------- 7,81
---- 700 ------------------ 0,14 ---------------------- 7,86
      
SKMorefield
Senior Member

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Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 27 July 2005 14:36
That is exactly what I was looking for Pilke. Thank you!

So bottom line, it doesn't really make sense to play anyone more than 350 points below your ELO score, and it's even better to try and shoot for 200 less, although the higher you get the harder that becomes.
      
thekid
Senior Member
Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

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December 2004
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Wed, 27 July 2005 16:20
Wow that was a cool chart. I always wondered what win % was needed to keep your rating the same. This is what it works out to be:

0-------50.0%

50------57.1%

100-----64.0%

150-----70.4%

200-----76.0%

250-----80.9%

300-----84.9%

350-----88.3%

400-----90.9%

450-----93.0%

500-----94.6%

550-----96.0%

600-----96.9%

650-----97.6%

700-----98.3%
      
pilke
Member

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Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Thu, 28 July 2005 13:11
Here is the same table, with different numbers.
(No, I don't have too much freetime, I just love to count Wink )

Difference in score - better ranked gets - better ranked loses - winning persentage needed to maintain the score

-------- 0 --------------------- 4,0 ---------------------- 4,0 ---------------- 50 %
------ 88,74 ----------------- 3,0 ---------------------- 5,0 ---------------- 62,5 %
----- 190,85 ----------------- 2,0 ---------------------- 6,0 --------------- 75,0 %
----- 338,04 ----------------- 1,0 ---------------------- 7,0 --------------- 87,5 %


      
*player119882
Senior Member

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Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Fri, 29 July 2005 19:01
Great info!! Thanks for posting it!
      
Angel 6
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Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2007

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Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Sat, 15 October 2005 13:04
Razamanaz schrieb am Wed, 22 June 2005 00:56

HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1

Being #1 is also my dream since December 2004 - and now it became true, although with a not very impressing ELO of 1798 (now 1793) and probably for a very short period of time only.

la-la-laaaaaa-la, la-la-laaaaaa-la, la-la-la-la-la-la-laaaaaa. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
      
kotay
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Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2005

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Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Sat, 15 October 2005 13:21
huhu you are Nr 1 Angel, but do you really worth it Cool Twisted Evil
      
Angel 6
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Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Sat, 15 October 2005 14:19
kotay - Gewürztraminer schrieb am Sat, 15 October 2005 13:21

huhu you are Nr 1 Angel, but do you really worth it Cool Twisted Evil

Well, who nows?! Question

Maybe I am like Thomas Muster. Nobody ever thought he was the best player in the world, but he was #1 of the tennis world for a few weeks and I was a big fan of him. Thumbs Up

I am still young, maybe I can improve further... Wink

And maybe you, kotay, are in some respect the best player in the world, as I don't have a negative statistic against any top player beside you.
But for you the #1 is probably less important as for me - I think anybody no matter how talented has to try hard to get there... Cool
      
thekid
Senior Member
Vainqueur AdR European Map Championship 2010

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December 2004
Re:HAVE A DREAM TO BE NO.1 Sat, 15 October 2005 16:19
Congrats to the fourth true #1. Me, Pilke, White Train and Angel6. With the close grouping there could be more. Unless I wake up and put it back in its rightful home for good. Smile
      
    
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