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Zalamence
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Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Sun, 22 December 2019 19:18
Caves are quite simple, Behind Enemy Lines is less simple. I looked and found some interaction they have - starting from a cave hex, you can use the BEL to move to another cave, like a normal order.

You cannot first move to another cave and then continue moving before battling.

However, there's more due to the nature of BEL. Since you can move twice, and additionally make a short movement by Taking Ground, I would like to know how these are all played.

Case A: Starting from a different hex. Is it possible to move onto a cave hex and move through caves in the same turn (with BEL)?

Case B: Starting from a cave hex. Is it possible to move through caves, battle from a cave hex, Take Ground and/or move again?
https://ncdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_terrain_52.jpg
      
Jeronimon
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Sun, 22 December 2019 22:31
Tje answer is I think on page 53 of the FAQ:

Q. When using Behind Enemy Lines, does moving through a Cave hex count as one hex and allow the Japanese Infantry unit to move two more hexes before battling?
A. No. Moving from one Cave hex to another empty Cave hex is the unit’s entire movement for the turn. The Japanese Infantry unit can still battle but may not move another three hexes.

So you can only move from one cave to another then attack, and if that was in close assault you can take ground. (As taking ground is part of the battling phase.)
      
Antoi
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Sun, 22 December 2019 22:31
From the Pacific Rulebook:
Quote:

Only Japanese Infantry may use a Cave
network to move from any Cave hex it
occupies onto any other empty Cave hex as its entire
movement for the turn. The unit may still battle


To me it means NO to both of your questions.
But since you may battle, you can take ground if you want to.
      
player3584445
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Thu, 24 June 2021 06:45
I would argue that BEL, being a "tactic" card, supercedes the "standard" rule, as it allows two movement phases (1st movement phase-battle phase-2nd movement phase), therefore, IJA infantry could move from one cave to another, battle, and then move to another cave (or an additional three hexes}. This would realistically simulate a raid behind enemy lines, or more to the point the hit and run peek-a-boo tactics the Japanese actually used in the Pacific theater. Just got my copy, but this is how I will play it.
      
player3584445
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Thu, 24 June 2021 06:59
In "Case A" in above post, I would say a unit moving into a cave from an adjacent (non-cave) hex must stop and move no further, unless he can battle an adjacent enemy unit, in which case he could use his 2nd movement phase (granted by the BEL card) to move to another cave.
      
Zalamence
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Thu, 24 June 2021 10:06
This is my thinking also.

By the way, I believe you can use BEL to move a second time, even if you did not battle.
      
McMedic
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Thu, 24 June 2021 13:08
The answer Jeronimon gave from the FAQ is the Official answer. You are always able to house rule your own games, but in a tournament it is usually the FAQ rule that is applied.
      
tank commander
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Wed, 30 June 2021 13:47
McMedic wrote on Thu, 24 June 2021 07:08

The answer Jeronimon gave from the FAQ is the Official answer. You are always able to house rule your own games, but in a tournament it is usually the FAQ rule that is applied.


Exactly right. As a past AGM at several WBC Memoir 44 tournaments, the Official FAQ is always used.

Of course, what players agree to when they play in outside of tournaments is up to them.
      
Zalamence
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Mon, 05 July 2021 16:55
Technically, the FAQ entry here doesn't directly address case A, so I'd say further clarification would be nice.

The way I see it is that in the question submitted to FAQ, we presume the unit starts from a cave hex. In case A, the question is "Can you use the special cave movement with Behind Enemy Lines if you started from some other hex?".

Since the answer in the entry says "entire movement", I guess case A would still be against the rules. But BEL is so special I would not be surprised if such move was allowed.
      
sam1812
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Mon, 05 July 2021 22:46
This is completely unambiguous: "Moving from one Cave hex to another empty Cave hex is the unit’s entire movement for the turn. The Japanese Infantry unit can still battle but may not move another three hexes."

If they use cave movement, it's just from one cave hex to another. IJA can't move onto a cave and then move through the cave. They can't move through a cave and then off of it.
      
player3584445
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Tue, 06 July 2021 04:02
Whatever is written on a tactic card trumps the "regular" rules, for example, "regular infantry may not move 2 spaces and battle", yet the "Infantry Assault" card allows this. It should be the same with the "BEL" card, allowing you two separate moves and disregarding terrain restrictions.
      
sam1812
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Tue, 06 July 2021 06:33
player3584445 wrote on Mon, 05 July 2021 22:02

Whatever is written on a tactic card trumps the "regular" rules, for example, "regular infantry may not move 2 spaces and battle", yet the "Infantry Assault" card allows this. It should be the same with the "BEL" card, allowing you two separate moves and disregarding terrain restrictions.


The FAQ consists of official rulings from Richard Borg, the person who created the game. That trumps everything.

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 06 July 2021 06:33]

      
McMedic
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Tue, 06 July 2021 20:50
sam1812 wrote on Tue, 06 July 2021 00:33

player3584445 wrote on Mon, 05 July 2021 22:02

Whatever is written on a tactic card trumps the "regular" rules, for example, "regular infantry may not move 2 spaces and battle", yet the "Infantry Assault" card allows this. It should be the same with the "BEL" card, allowing you two separate moves and disregarding terrain restrictions.


The FAQ consists of official rulings from Richard Borg, the person who created the game. That trumps everything.

I agree with you wholeheartedly sam1812, but if the Japanese unit begins using BEL on a hex that is not a cave hex and moves onto a cave hex and battles it may still move again (not using the cave system) and possibly in a three-hex final move end up on another cave hex. It is technically not using the cave system for movement but simply landing on the cave hex for battle and again for final placement. Would you agree that this is allowed?

It seems as if a US Marine did this very thing it would also be allowed?

Isn’t the BEL limitation strictly based on Japanese Infantry using the cave system to begin movement from one cave to another?

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 06 July 2021 21:01]

      
sam1812
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Re:Behind Enemy Lines plus cave Wed, 07 July 2021 17:58
As a tournament GM, if a Japanese player wanted to use surface movement between two Cave hexes on BEL, that case is not discussed in the FAQ, but I would allow a second move.

(Interestingly, the precedent I would cite for that is ski troops or tanks at Frozen Rivers where you could avoid an ice roll by going over a bridge (3 hexes) instead of crossing directly (2 hexes

Only IJA are allowed Cave movement, so that issue does not exist for Marines.
      
    
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