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kotay
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  thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 10:30
Yoo Cool

I was just watching the history of thekid,and wondering how the "king of the rail" has fallen so deep in the ranking, and with only 72 of karma ? Rolling Eyes and began to play 4er with some GUEST ?

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 18 September 2006 10:32]

      
erps
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What is normal? Mon, 18 September 2006 11:39
Hi

What's the problem? That are his "normal" points at the moment. You should feel proud that even thekid is now playing kotay-style (every map, every number of opponents). Unfortunately it shows that he is crap at multiplayer, i mean -62 and -21 points and most of the time last place against ELO 1200 players ... Very Happy

The playing versus guest thing is unusual but you don't have the same control over multiplayer games than 2 player games you start.

Enjoy your games Laughing

      
thekid
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 13:49
I call it bot style multi. After coming in second or third sometimes with the bot, I made sure in the next couple by taking 10 or 13 tix, poor bot never had a chance then.
      
thekid
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 14:06
Le message n'a pas de contenu

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 18 September 2006 14:26]

      
Elric - Sancerre
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 14:21
I'm sure you know this song, kid :

"Hey Joe,
"uh, where you goin' with those points in your hand?
"Hey Joe,
"I said where you goin' with those points in your hand? Alright
"
"I'm goin' down to shot my old ranking...

Wink

PS : but really, very very strange to not see you anymore in the first page Confused
      
thekid
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 14:25
Re:NC 2006 - la gazette des reds Mon, 18 September 2006 03:52

Yoo

je viens de voir l histo du kid, et je me demande si il n a pas fait expres de descendre son classement a 1577 pour voir les obj de TEE ? et aussi pour voir les miens en meme temps ?

ca sux leur regle de devoir joué en ouvert, je demande a jouer en fermé!!
[Updated on: Mon, 18 September 2006 04:26]

Care to comment Kotay? Are you calling me a cheater? My french translation says yes.

      
Angel 6
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 14:50
thekid schrieb am Mon, 18 September 2006 13:49

I call it bot style multi. After coming in second or third sometimes with the bot, I made sure in the next couple by taking 10 or 13 tix, poor bot never had a chance then.

Why are you doing this? Question

Last year I remember kotay writing that he wants my points because I don't deserve my rank, and he played against me at 1620 or so. I didn't mind much because I knew any points he gets from me I can get back elsewhere; in fact by winning 4:3 I only lost a few points. Cool

Now it seems that you want kotay's points, or??? Question
(maybe you both could get down to 1200 to avoid giving points to opponents Laughing )

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 18 September 2006 14:51]

      
kotay
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 16:04
Quote:

Last year I remember kotay writing that he wants my points because I don't deserve my rank, and he played against me at 1620 or so. I didn't mind much because I knew any points he gets from me I can get back elsewhere; in fact by winning 4:3 I only lost a few points. Cool



Yoo

1) for the NC, I wasnt playing against you at 1620, but near 1680, and I began the NC with 1630. it was before the NC startede you loose 3 games against me (1620) but it was neitherfor you that I went down to 1600+ nor for the NC.

2) it was not a pb if I was my rank was lower than yours, you could have played closed games if you wanted

3) I dont care about my points, just care about a "real" win

Quote:

Care to comment Kotay? Are you calling me a cheater? My french translation says yes.


Yes I care to comment, and where did I say that you cheated ? I was just asking some question. Í have Never told that you cheated ^^
      
thekid
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 16:16
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 10:04


Quote:

Care to comment Kotay? Are you calling me a cheater? My french translation says yes.

Yes I care to comment, and where did I say that you cheated ? I was just asking some question. Í have Never told that you cheated ^^


Hey Kotay here is your supposed "Question" in English:

I wonder whether thekid did not reduce his rating to 1577 to see the tickets of TEE? and also to see mine in same time? I ask to play my games with him closed.


There is no doubt what you are saying here.

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 18 September 2006 16:25]

      
erps
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 17:35
Hi

What is this leading to?

Remember please the words of our TD and of DoW, they don't want personal accusations in the forum anymore. Besides the usual trash talk nobody wants such a discussion.

kid, i don't think that any french is accusing you of cheating! Do as you want with your points. Give them freely away Smile You had enough of them... But understand other players who have a problem to play against a 1800 player who is only worth 1500 on purpose! I think it was not really necessary to do such a thing, but you may have your reasons, fine with me.

bye, erps
      
thekid
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 17:43
thekid wrote on Mon, 18 September 2006 10:16



I wonder whether thekid did not reduce his rating to 1577 to see the tickets of TEE? and also to see mine in same time? I ask to play my games with him closed.






Nothing personal, erps Smile. But are you blind? What does that say to you up there?

Here's what it says, I wonder if thekid cheated by reducing his rating so he could look at TEE's tickets and also mine(Kotay's). I want to play closed games with him as I don't trust that he is not cheating.

Can't get anymore personal than that. Questioning my character, calling me a cheat, and yet no one cares.

And still they go on about me in the French forum too, so I decided to respond there as well.

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 18 September 2006 17:45]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 18:28
I know Eric said they are getting to it, but if DoW would just fix the observe function this will all be fine. For the life of me I can't understand why it was EVER possible for an observer to see anyone's tickets in a game. It's an accident just waiting to happen (and I'm sure has happened plenty of times).
      
Baron Von Schmidt original
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 21:53
From Kotay

Quote:

I wonder whether thekid did not reduce his rating to 1577 to see the tickets of TEE? and also to see mine in same time? I ask to play my games with him closed.



Under NO circumstance are ANY games to be played closed. The rules are quite clear on this and neither the TD nor anyone else has any discretion to change the rules.

So you can ask all you want but it is not a question you even SHOULD be asking. YOU agreed to the rules Kotay and it amazes Baron that you would ask for a change that is not allowed.

Only two reasons exist.

1. You don't really agree to the rules and if this is the case you should not be playing in the tournament.

2. You are implying thekid would cheat.

Either is extremely distasteful.

You owe an apology to thekid immediately and a retraction for your statement.

Baron Von Schmidt

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 19 September 2006 01:15]

      
Elric - Sancerre
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Mon, 18 September 2006 23:04
SKMorefield écrit le Mon, 18 September 2006 18:28

I know Eric said they are getting to it, but if DoW would just fix the observe function this will all be fine. For the life of me I can't understand why it was EVER possible for an observer to see anyone's tickets in a game. It's an accident just waiting to happen (and I'm sure has happened plenty of times).

Thanks for this precision, SKM Thumbs Up
I totally agree with this demand, and I hope this could be fixed one day... earlier than later (thanks DoW Smile )... because, as erps knows and remember well, I think ( Twisted Evil ... Rolling Eyes ... Wink ), I don't like very much to be observed in a Tournament game !

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 19 September 2006 01:37]

      
Monika
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 00:10
And sorry, I didn't mean to, but I have to pipe up on this one as well. I agree with the Baron totally (of course, darlin) and I do understand kid's point quite well... I'd be miffed too, to say the least... Some people just get away with anything at all, and not only do they NOT apologize, they try to tell you that they did not really mean it like that, but how dumb do they think people are?? I know this game is supposed to be FUN, and all about having FUN, but when people get called nasty names (me, not by Kotay, may I add) and have their character and integrity questioned (kid) and no one says a word even though certain people cross the line to common decency big time, then to me it stops being funny. Kid, I'm definitely on your side on this one. (Aren't you the lucky one!!)

Monika
      
Dandy
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 01:01
Current mode of observation is not safe from cheaters, that is a fact. I don't believe that any high ranking players would give away their points to perform a little cheating - they are strong enough to beat their opponents without cheating. Their ego would not allow such behaviour! No way! It is only a weak player who can be attracted by such possibility to get a chance to beat somebody significantly stronger...

If anything, form strong player it could be only a defense move to avoid being observed and become a target of cheaters. But even that is a stretch.

---

And now - important question: how to fix this situation without blocking observation altogether? DoW folks, it is for your attention!

In my opinion, complete solution to the problem with observation would need more drastic changes than just "Do not show destination tickets".

First of all - this measure would not fix all the issues with observation, because knowing the set of trains in a hand is still a lot of important data. Second, it will make observation not interesting, because you will not have a clue why the player makes his moves without knowing his destination tickets, observer can't predict the next move, can't analyze if it is the best move or an error - in other words, observation wihtout seeing destination tickets does not make any sense.

But then how to fix it? I think I have a solution:

NO SYNCRONOUS OBSERVATION IN REAL TIME! To keep observation, DoW should SAVE the record of the game and open it for observation or downloading after the game IS FINISHED - say, keep all completed games open for observation and download for 30 minutes after the game. That will guarantee to any player - no cheating, ever! You can't cheat on finised game!

More than that, it will allow the game to be observed FROM DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW - observer will be able to select any hand he would like to observe. Rescords of the best games, most popular games, tournament games, NC games - all that could be kept in special TTR libraries for longer periods of time. There could be more possibilities - what to do with recorded games.

What do you think?
      
erps
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 01:20
Hi

I disagree (partly).

I think nothing beats the "live" feeling. It's boring to watch a game a few minutes after you saw the result in the lobby. The cheering, the emotions, great!

But your proposal is a good one to store the games. At the moment i am recording many games for eternity but they are "huge" in file size and it costs time and effort to create them. It should be easy to program a "description language" for ttr. I think you must only store some abstract information in a database like

1 p1 draw pile green open green
2 p2 draw pile orange pile loco
3 p1 lay 2 green houston neworleans
...

(of course not really in words, you can save bits for all this)

We need both solutions. I think NOT seeing any ticks and cards adds a lot of spice to the watching! You can guess 2 players ticks and cards. Should be great! And a player is still able to tell his friends or team mates via Skype/MSN the ticks and colors!

My solution:

Normal observe mode -> as by now (live) [Default?]
Reduced observe mode -> only the map (live) [Default?]
Store mode -> saves the game to database [Default is OFF]

bye, erps
      
SKMorefield
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 02:52
I toss my 2 cents with what erps just wrote. Very Happy
      
ElSoyokaze
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 05:22
I must disagree here.

I'm probably the biggest proponent of the open games that there can be here, and for a good reason. Y'all know that I didn't get good by playing thousands of games, that much is clear. What was the biggest deal for me was watching rek, kid, pilke, and others, both before and after people started closing games. I attribute that to my desire to improve and play with the other top players, and I'm certain I'm not the only one. If games weren't observable (or I couldn't see train/destinations cards), I would have been shut off from T2R long ago. I'd really rather not see that happen to others.

As for cheating, well, I don't really see it as a problem from where I stand. Cheaters in the tops quickly get blacklisted, and cheaters toward the bottom can't frequently beat tops even while cheating!

But, if it's serious enough to take action, pleasepleasePLEASE just disable the view of the destination cards. Otherwise it's just an empty experience. I recommend no action, but if something has to be done, just do that.

--ElSoy
      
f0uyaya - Pic-St-Loup
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 10:06
SKMorefield écrit le Mon, 18 September 2006 18:28

I know Eric said they are getting to it, but if DoW would just fix the observe function this will all be fine. For the life of me I can't understand why it was EVER possible for an observer to see anyone's tickets in a game. It's an accident just waiting to happen (and I'm sure has happened plenty of times).


Agree ! Razz

At least this post is far from beeing useless, thanks Kotay (and thekid) Laughing

I'm sure DOW will find good solution from all the good propositions here Surprised No tix at all for observe mode, or a "safe" observe mode in addition to the existing one with no tickets and no cards.
Recording games is also a fine idea, if it's possible to do it...
      
toutoune - Morgon
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 10:29
Just to bring some "oil on fire" (probably a bad translation Smile.

thekid's strategy to go down in ranking is clear IMHO. No he is not a cheater, of course. But he is just insulting TEE and/or Kotay, convinced that they could cheat against him. Ok, it is an intelligent legal insult, but definitely an insult.

What other reason to act like that? Perhaps thekid is terrified that observers see clear mistakes from him?

Btw thekid: could you try please to schedule your games like your partners from Homeland Security? We would love to see Kotays cards in live.

Regards,
toutoune

      
erps
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 12:59
Hi

Additionally should the "normal" observe mode allow to watch BOTH (ALL) players not only the best ranked. Hey, equal rights for all! If the lower ranked player is cheating on the better ranked, why not vice versa? Surprised

Optional (would help a lot, was on my proposal thread for nearly 24 trillion years) make the creator of the game observable...

So many possibilities... Send me the [bip] source code i will program that crap Cool

bye, erps
      
Goscha
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 15:23
For these problems, it is necessary, that DOW offers a toggle Box for open matches called: "Hide tickets and colors".
So everyone can watch the games and cheating is impossible.
That`s the solution.
      
erps
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Tue, 19 September 2006 16:25
Hi

ElSoyokaze schrieb am Tue, 19 September 2006 05:22

I must disagree here.

But, if it's serious enough to take action, pleasepleasePLEASE just disable the view of the destination cards. Otherwise it's just an empty experience. I recommend no action, but if something has to be done, just do that.

--ElSoy


What is the problem? At the moment every player is able to exclude you from watching his game by disabling the observe function. If this "cheater" problem is not solved, most of the tops will close all their games and then the rest will follow soon. Don't think there is a real problem, but we all know the effect of fear on people. At this rate of open->close games you will not be able to see any game this christmas! Wink

My solution is easy. You can even leave ONE button. Let the "closed" button reduce the watch mode to the "only map" mode. Every game is observable now but only the map is shown! Chatting in private games? Oh come on boys and girls, you have Skype, MSN, ICQ and so on and so on. Why chatting in this chat box from the stone age?
Even this "feature" can remain, the "only map" mode shows exactly this... only the map (and the points and number of ticks/cards).

Observable game: Addng a "switch" button to switch to the other player for viewing. Done!!

-> Bonus for you: Every game is at least watchable to some basics. The observable games shows even more! And if someone is opening an observable game on your request now he will do so in the future too!

bye, erps

Not only words, do something, here is the concept:

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 20 September 2006 09:07]

      
Dandy
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 04:08
IMHO, the problem with this solution (hide destinations and vagons at player's hand) is that it will actually make oservation quite useless and dull. If you can't see destination and vagons, you can't try to think, analyze and predict the next move, you can't understand the logic for the game and the way of thinking of the player whom you try to observe.

For me it will JUST KILL observation - almost the same as closing the game.

I still insist that saving the game and allow other people observe RECORDED game after the game is finished would be much better experience.

I do not agree with ERPS that observation in real time, but without destination tickets and set of vagons is better than observing recorded game. It will be just very, very dull - imagine, for the first half of the game you probably won't see ANY ACTION AT ALL! Board is static at the beginning. And then when you finally see the action - you won't understand it, because you don't see tickets and vagons. Horrible! That would be like observing soccer - sorry, football - game, but without showing the ball. You will see just random movements of the players, trying to guess, but to no purpose - WHERE IS THIS F...ING BALL??? Laughing

I would partially agree with ElSoy - DoW, your better don't do anything with observation -- if you can't record the game. (Actually, recording the games should be quite simple for you).

To ERPS - recording and watching TTR games would be very interesting even after the game is over!

Same as with chess games - you take the record of the past games and enjoy the great thinking of Morphy, Lasker, Euve, Fisher or Kasparov - no matter how long time ago their beautiful games were played! But you need FULL RECORD to understand the game, so you need to record destinations and vagons in TTR. I would loke to analyze my own mistakes and losses - get the record of my lost game and observe it from the other side would be just FABULOUS!
      
thekid
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 06:03
Thank you Baron and Monika, you are both correct. Yes Monika welcome to the real world where certain special people are allowed to get away with things others would not. Especially if roles were reversed you know the TD would have done something rather than just ignore her earlier cease and desist order.

I guess people who use a picture from their own commercials as an avatar can get special treatment. Yes of course thekid has audio from that commercial:

Hello, lonely people. Can you not get any women? Find no action. Can't even afford your own webcard and have to beg for handouts. Welcome to the Lonely Hearts Poor Boy Club. Where I'm not only the President but also a client.
      
thadd
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 07:19
You need a fan club in order to feel good?
Seems so!
I don't need to share or expose my opinion if my decision is already made and communicated to the relevant people, I still have a lot of other stuff to deal with. It's not all about points in my life.

      
erps
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 09:10
Hi

I moved the discussion of observation mode to a new thread. Now this thread is free to discuss the points of kid.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/index.php?t=msg&th=8313

bye, erps
      
erps
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 11:26
Hi

So, now time to say more to "this" thread.

Please people, think first before you write and do not applaud to people with the ability to alter the reality.

I agree with toutoune.

Let's review the situation: thekid versus TEE was 2:2. At this moment thekid decided to reduce his points by playing multiplayer and deliberately leaving the game (he admits it in this thread). The only reason (yes the only reason) for such a behaviour is a cheating accusation to TEE. And yes, it is a clever insult as tt wrote! Now comes Kotay and he is angry because every french knows in an instant what thekid is saying with his action. But Kotay is not clever (Smile), he uses a dumb reaction and his captain elric tries to save the day with a quick reaction, but to late. Of course Kotay is not really accusing thekid a cheat, because at this moment he had 1770 points and thekid 1720 (before the botstyle play), so in his game against thekid he is the one who will be watched anyway.
Yes, Kotay has to apologize for not thinking before writing a hot blooded response.

I know, he doesn't care, but thekid's behaviour is unsportsmanlike for two reasons:
First he is losing deliberately against bots, reducing his points and karma for some reason you can call at least insulting. And to his own high standards this is a laugh, you can now call thekid a quitter, the players he was fighting his whole ttr career...
Second he reduced his points wide below his "real" value. He is a 1800 player at least a 1750 player, now playing below 1600. With this behaviour he is "stealing" points from players he plays. And this again against his own standards. Only a small difference to a second account using it to play against tops and stealing their points. Something he was fighting against his whole career too!

In many sports for such a behaviour a player would be excluded from the games for a brief period of time. In soccer a player who
is deliberately getting a yellow card to avoid the next (unimportant) match is suspended for more than one game because of unsportsmanlike behaviour (it happened to Beckham or other players).

And now his threats against EPO and RFAD. They were doing usual trash talk. If you can't live with something like "le gosse" (= thekid in french), don't use this nick, kiddo! Razz

The other thing is léachris words: I saw them in the lobby, the "KILL HIM" was not necessary and i don't think it is a nice cheering FOR her french team. It is an insult to the other team and the other player and i say it loud and clear: For these words she has to apologize to thekid.

And now the thing that bothers me most: thekid, stop insulting thadd or any other TD in this game! They are doing more for the game than you! A player, who is NOT accepting ANY authority above his own, has NO right to critize any TD! The only tournaments with problems were tournaments you were involved as a player, that is the truth. I did 4 tournaments as a TD and all beside the one with you went smooth.
Thadd is doing this job because nobody wanted it and i feel liable for this because i was the one who nominated her for TD!

And start playing more than one game a day against your opponents and only at time you want. It's okay to play one game at night against americans but there should be a compromise of playing times for all games.

I don't care if you say i have no guts (and i proofed with this post that i have them) because i am doing more for this community than anybody else especially a truly gifted player who is misspending his talent by waging some private wars.

That's all. I am done!

bye, erps

P.S. Ah, and don't say i am doing this because i am friend with the french! You all know that's not true, some of them hate me wholeheartedly Surprised

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 20 September 2006 11:43]

      
OLE Masimo
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 13:26
Well - i am not a frequent forum reader or writer - but i have to say now, that i was impressed with what you wrote above, erps.
I wonder what the reason is, that some players go that far? I was still sitting on my little island with the funny idea and hope that all we are doing here is playing a game and have fun with friends .... Crying or Very Sad
Please let me keep a little bit of my childish thought of a healthy ttr community and let`s keep on playing a good and fair NC2006!
      
Corflu
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 13:47
A simple solution to this would be to have Nations Cup games NOT observable. Then there can be no acusations, or temptations. Yet the rules are the rules and should be followed for THIS tournament. It is just hte second one. We can all live and learn to modify them in the future to enhance them for what we want to do. You have a choice to enter the tournament with the rules as written or not ahead of time.

99% of our community would never even think of cheating. This is a great community! Yet there is the 1% that may, and in a 'formal' competition we have to consider that possibility.


Consider this: The observable game option allows either side to be paranoid about "unwelcome assistiance" from watchers. As concerned as some people are that thekid could somehow look at his opponents tickets, perhaps he was simply concerened that others were looking at HIS tickets!

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 20 September 2006 13:56]

      
OLE sebbo
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 14:13
If two or more players have intimate problems, they should solve them private (PM, closed game...whatever) and not public, or simply ignore each other. But please please please spare us your public accusations!

This is no challenge of "i can be much more noisy/i make much more trouble than you" but of playing TTR.

cheers
sebbo
      
erps
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July 2005
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 14:44
Hi

au contraire, mon capitaine!

There is one player who is constantly eroding the authority of the TD, this is something that must be stopped.

Thadd is one of the nicest and fairest players of the community and she is doing this job for US.

It's every tournament the same: A problem occurs, if the decision is against him, the others are morons and the TD has no guts to decide the "right" thing.

The other things i wrote were an edit of the whole discussion with the french and i think i am uncommitted in this case.

@Corflu It's not about cheating. I explained it all in this post, it's about using subtle actions to aggravate the community and bending the truth.

You will not find a flaw in my logic, because it is my logic! (using the same technique!).

bye, erps


      
thekid
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December 2004
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 16:42
Thank you erps, thank you. Uh, oh thekid is thanking a critic can't be good for the critic.

erps wrote on Wed, 20 September 2006 05:26

Hi

So, now time to say more to "this" thread.

Please people, think first before you write and do not applaud to people with the ability to alter the reality.

I agree with toutoune.

Let's review the situation: thekid versus TEE was 2:2. At this moment thekid decided to reduce his points by playing multiplayer and deliberately leaving the game (he admits it in this thread). The only reason (yes the only reason) for such a behaviour is a cheating accusation to TEE. And yes, it is a clever insult as tt wrote! Now comes Kotay and he is angry because every french knows in an instant what thekid is saying with his action. But Kotay is not clever (Smile), he uses a dumb reaction and his captain elric tries to save the day with a quick reaction, but to late. Of course Kotay is not really accusing thekid a cheat, because at this moment he had 1770 points and thekid 1720 (before the botstyle play), so in his game against thekid he is the one who will be watched anyway.
Yes, Kotay has to apologize for not thinking before writing a hot blooded response.

I know, he doesn't care, but thekid's behaviour is unsportsmanlike for two reasons:
First he is losing deliberately against bots, reducing his points and karma for some reason you can call at least insulting. And to his own high standards this is a laugh, you can now call thekid a quitter, the players he was fighting his whole ttr career...
Second he reduced his points wide below his "real" value. He is a 1800 player at least a 1750 player, now playing below 1600. With this behaviour he is "stealing" points from players he plays. And this again against his own standards. Only a small difference to a second account using it to play against tops and stealing their points. Something he was fighting against his whole career too!

In many sports for such a behaviour a player would be excluded from the games for a brief period of time. In soccer a player who
is deliberately getting a yellow card to avoid the next (unimportant) match is suspended for more than one game because of unsportsmanlike behaviour (it happened to Beckham or other players).

And now his threats against EPO and RFAD. They were doing usual trash talk. If you can't live with something like "le gosse" (= thekid in french), don't use this nick, kiddo! Razz

The other thing is léachris words: I saw them in the lobby, the "KILL HIM" was not necessary and i don't think it is a nice cheering FOR her french team. It is an insult to the other team and the other player and i say it loud and clear: For these words she has to apologize to thekid.

And now the thing that bothers me most: thekid, stop insulting thadd or any other TD in this game! They are doing more for the game than you! A player, who is NOT accepting ANY authority above his own, has NO right to critize any TD! The only tournaments with problems were tournaments you were involved as a player, that is the truth. I did 4 tournaments as a TD and all beside the one with you went smooth.
Thadd is doing this job because nobody wanted it and i feel liable for this because i was the one who nominated her for TD!

And start playing more than one game a day against your opponents and only at time you want. It's okay to play one game at night against americans but there should be a compromise of playing times for all games.

I don't care if you say i have no guts (and i proofed with this post that i have them) because i am doing more for this community than anybody else especially a truly gifted player who is misspending his talent by waging some private wars.

That's all. I am done!

bye, erps

P.S. Ah, and don't say i am doing this because i am friend with the french! You all know that's not true, some of them hate me wholeheartedly Surprised



Let's start picking apart your points one by one.

1. My ranking drop you call a cheating accusation of TEE as the only reason, guess what? Wrong. Check the tiebreaker rules. Most matches won is first tiereaker in case of ties. We have already lost as a team, we need a win here. A drop my rank did exactly what I expected it to, everyone thinks I am calling them a cheat. Not so. Now they are thinking about that and maybe that I'm watching them. I know I'm not. Now their minds are not 100% on the game. It's psychological warfare, completely in the rules and no call of cheating like you say. It's a brilliant move that no one else here would do, sacrifice themselves for their team.


2. You call me a problem for the TD. I had not posted at all aout this NC until DOW asked to be moved from their group. TD says OK. I point out why this is not OK and she agrees and changes back. I tell her she made a GREAT decision and that last year's TD would have screwed it up like he did everything else last year. Doesn't look like a prolem so far now does it? Move ahead a week she tells the players, no more personal attacks, here in the english forum and tells them not to in the french or geman forums as well. Since that cease and desist order, I am called a cheat by Kotay in an open forum, he offers no apology and others in the french forum still comtinue. She decides to do nothing. So now it's apparently OK to get personal. I like thadd, I have told her this many times including just last night. If this were Travis from last year you would have had pages of replies from me. You will get no more ripping of her from me. She made an order, other parties ignored it, she doesn't care, in my opinion she is wrong, she gets one post about it, she responds, it is done, I got my point across. ut now it seems that it is OK for personal attacks, so if people continue with me, guess what I will continue as well. Also do not forget that the french team we were playing in round 1 was already calling me a cheat for getting botted in game 4 before her cease and desist. And you saw no response from me. So who's the problem here?


3. As for taking points from anyone. They don't have to join my games, they see my rating. So I might have to get back by beating 1300's for awhile, coupled with not playing much might take awhile. So for anyone I play in the NC, for any point differential you lose to me, I will give them back to you after the match if you like. So I am not taking points away from any of the top players. Maybe you should turn your focus to top players who only play 1 rated game every 2 weeks, just so they can keep their precious rank.

4. The only tournaments with problems were the ones I was involved with, the truth. Was it me getting suspended y TD in last years NC? No. Was it me getting thrown off my team in the NC? No. Guess it's not the truth then. Guess you're wrong but I'll go on.

There is a line that you dare not cross. Do I tread the line? Yes, but I know where it is. Kotay calling me a cheater crosses that line.

Lets go on with the other tournaments:

Tourney 1 - Won by El Soy. No problems.

Tourney 2 - No winner. I was cheated by Razamanaz in this tourney but this is before recordings so I swallow my pride and take the hits from the thread writers and say nothing. I wait because I know he will do it again.

Last year's NC - Razamanaz cheats again against someone else in the tournament. I call it out, I knew he would do it again. TD agrees and takes that game away from Raz. So Erps is this not another problem that I did not cause? Or is cheating OK by you? TD makes a mistake by not haqving them start over from that point as everyone knows being 1-0 ahead instead of 0-1 down makes a big psychological difference. He also chooses to let a team forfeit a match that could have an impact on tiereakers. He fails to see any logic and his hatred for me clouds his judgement. As to my matches with 2 rounds left we are eliminated as well as our opponent for that round. I show up 3 times at times designated by my opponent and she runs away when I enter lobby. She doesn't answer and goes on playing other games. I was there when she wanted me to be. I complain and say I was 3 times for her, at inconvienient times for me. Now make it convienient for me. TD disagrees. Double forfeit, it's wrong but fine with me. Last round I am tired of playing at only the other person's convienient time so I offer only times convienient for me. Opponent does not like times, I have my team replace me with another player.

Survivor Tourney - won by tprail. No problems.

3rd Best of 7 - won by erps. ME as TD. Nothing even remotely resembling a problem.

2 other smaller survivor tourneys -won by THE BARON. No problems.

Europe Tourney - You as TD. First round play 1 game planning to finish either that or next night don't remember. 2 of my kids become very sick throwing up. I was playing an hour before appointed time. Kids sick through the night, I don't have chance to return. I let opponent know next day what happend, he complains I should have sent him PM at the time it happened. Well he wins no Father of the Year from me. My family is more important than TtR. Then opponent disappears for 5 days. It's now summer and we have switched to living at our beach house and not being home much. I barely play 1 or 2 games a day and they are only at night as we are out all day. You tell us we have to meet at an appointed hour. I withdraw from tourney as I can't be there at that time.

This years NC- As I stated above nothing from me critical at all, until players are told to stop getting personal with attacks. I am then called a cheater, can't get more personal than that. TD fails to live up to her cease and desist by ignoring it, her choice but it's wrong. Hey erps, what if the thread was ERPS IS A CHEAT. You just sit back and ignore it, I think not. The simple solution was to have Kotay apologize in the forums. He apparently has chosen not to do that. Why? Apparently he must think I am a cheater.

5. Stop playing games 1 at a time and I have done nothing for this community. I organized 2 of the best of sevens and the survivor was my idea. I helped rid this community of the cheats that were at the top of the leaderboard before you got here. Had more time then, kids are bigger they don't need bottles anymore so I don't play nearly as much.

As for the one at a time, my time is for my kids. My wife and I play with them all day. We have a 5 year old and three 2 year olds. I used to play when my wife breastfed them and I gave the others bottles. They don't need bottles so I only play when everyone is asxleep. I can squeeze a game in when they are eating so maybe 1 or 2 during the day thats it. My 5 against TEE were all at reasonable hours for the Europeans. I didn't make anyone stay up late as you inferred. And will play Kotay in the same timeframe. I usually let them set the window and then try to fit 30 min. in there. The rest of my day is spoent playing with the wife and kids. Lucky for us we don't have to work, but family time is much more important than TtR time. And it always will be.

I used to really like you erps, but your last post, not the one I have quoted, but the one just before this post is quite out of line. As I have refuted all of your charges above, quite simply you are just wrong. Note no name calling.


      
thadd
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December 2004
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 17:17
Go and check my post, I said clearly 'I don't want any personal attacks in the NC threads', and don't think that I edited it now. I told you already yesterday.

Same for suspending players, I told you, in order to suspend or warn a player, I need more than just assumptions of some players. I replied kotay via pm, that I see no need to change the rule regarding open games, I am 99.9% sure that you don't cheat, same as for kotay.

You can rip me off, I am old enough to defend myself. I just didn't see any reason to start arguing via posts. As I said, I replied kotay and the decision was done. I don't argue about. If you want to be included in every pm I send out concerning you, tell me.
You have all the right, same as the others, to blame or accuse players here in the forum, it's not under my responsability.
But I want the NC threads clean.

Otherwise I got complaints about players badly misbehaving in the lobby while NC games, I am not afraid of banning players out of the lobby while their teammates or friends are playing.

I didn't warn them via pm now, as there is no evidence of proof. But this is absolutly not acceptable.



      
erps
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July 2005
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 17:24
Hi

First i see nothing personal in my posts but in yours. The whole answer is a proof to my post.

thekid schrieb am Wed, 20 September 2006 16:42


Let's start picking apart your points one by one.

1. My ranking drop you call a cheating accusation of TEE as the only reason, guess what? Wrong. Check the tiebreaker rules. Most matches won is first tiereaker in case of ties. We have already lost as a team, we need a win here. A drop my rank did exactly what I expected it to, everyone thinks I am calling them a cheat. Not so. Now they are thinking about that and maybe that I'm watching them. I know I'm not. Now their minds are not 100% on the game. It's psychological warfare, completely in the rules and no call of cheating like you say. It's a brilliant move that no one else here would do, sacrifice themselves for their team.


This is a lot more unsportsmanlike than the other solution... And it proofs my last sentence: "...it's about using subtle actions to aggravate the community..."

thekid schrieb am Wed, 20 September 2006 16:42


2. You call me a problem for the TD. [...] Also do not forget that the french team we were playing in round 1 was already calling me a cheat for getting botted in game 4 before her cease and desist. And you saw no response from me. So who's the problem here?


Don't know about this calling a cheat for getting botted-thing. If someone is calling you a cheat he should apologize, i always said you ARE FOR SURE NO CHEATER! But you can bend it as you like, Kotay did not call you a cheater. If your "psychological warfare" is allowed his questions are allowed too!

thekid schrieb am Wed, 20 September 2006 16:42


4. The only tournaments with problems were the ones I was involved with, the truth. Was it me getting suspended y TD in last years NC? No. Was it me getting thrown off my team in the NC? No. Guess it's not the truth then. Guess you're wrong but I'll go on. [...]
Hey erps, what if the thread was ERPS IS A CHEAT. You just sit back and ignore it, I think not.


I speak of the tournaments me TD Smile Smile And there was not thread THEKID IS A CHEAT. As usual!

thekid schrieb am Wed, 20 September 2006 16:42


5. Stop playing games 1 at a time and I have done nothing for this community. I organized 2 of the best of sevens and the survivor was my idea. I helped rid this community of the cheats that were at the top of the leaderboard before you got here. Had more time then, kids are bigger they don't need bottles anymore so I don't play nearly as much.
[...]


And now the usual. Cherry picking. Not a word of my "standing in" for you because of Léachris "Kill me". I didn't say you have done "nothing" for the community. Start reading the whole posts. I said me or other TDs have done more. Nothing to say to the threat against EPO in the french forum. The one game thing is in my opinion a nuisance and it goes now for weeks. My right to say my opinion, a NC match should be played completly on one day if possible...

thekid schrieb am Wed, 20 September 2006 16:42


I used to really like you erps, but your last post, not the one I have quoted, but the one just before this post is quite out of line. As I have refuted all of your charges above, quite simply you are just wrong. Note no name calling.


I don't see anything wrong in my last post. What is there out of line? Now comes the usual "he must be stopped"-death-threat-thing. Read it! I said the eroding of TD authority must be stopped. No name calling. You were the first after the start of this thread who started calling me "names" in Pms. Bending the truth? Ah, means thekid is a liar? No, means not! Everybody is bending the truth to fit in to the own reality. With your answer you showed that everything i wrote is true (same logic again!) and you are just wrong Smile Smile

Plonk!

bye, erps

P.S. I still think you are one of the greatest players in TTR and a lot of your posts are fun to read. The last one with the Kotay-Ad-Jingle is really good trash talk Smile I also like some of your style and have nothing against you in person. You have only a "seeing the world in black/white" problem!

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 20 September 2006 17:41]

      
OLE Masimo
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Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 17:31
thekid schrieb am Wed, 20 September 2006 16:42



1. My ranking drop you call a cheating accusation of TEE as the only reason, guess what? Wrong. ......... Now their minds are not 100% on the game. It's psychological warfare, completely in the rules and no call of cheating like you say. It's a brilliant move that no one else here would do, sacrifice themselves for their team.




WOW thekid ...... now you really disappoint me! I had never ever expected that you needed a move like that to win against TEE! I always thought you beeing one of the best players on the board that you should be able to win just by playing! Might i be mistaken?
      
Monika
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November 2004
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 17:55
Well, one good thing, the boring "changing observation mode" talk was moved to another thread. Guess someone else noticed that this is not about that at all.

What is it with you people????

I don't care what went on with whom where and at what time, all I know is that if I were called a cheat (which thekid was) I would not take it lying down, either! So this, IMHO, (on second thought, leave out the H) is about defamation of his character and, to aggravate this very controversial allegation, doing it in front of the whole community. I am more than a little surprised that no one seems to have the guts to say so or at least take a stand one way or the other, instead of pussyfooting around trying to keep the peace at all costs. Don't get me wrong, I am all for peace on earth and in TTR land, but once a certain line of appropriateness has been crossed, I am not afraid to stand up and say what I think: Kotay did wrong, no ifs or buts about it. It is conceivable that he did not mean it the way it came out, but that is a moot point now. The damage is done.

And BTW, I am NOT part of ANY fan club. I hope no one is implying here that I am a gun for hire! I barely know thekid, we have rarely played (and talked even less), but I am rapidly beginning to think that he is one of the precious few people here worth knowing!

Monika


PS: And while we're doing dirty laundry, here's the reason for my low opinion: I sure wish we'd had that kind (or any kind!) of reaction when Jac_ called me that bad, bad word during the NC match between Peter and Rogue; except for 1 PM to me no one here said another word about it, it seems to be acceptable behavior?!!? Or is the reason that I am not a part of the club, a mediocre (and not very competitve) player who can be called any name under the sun? Using that kind of foul and vulgar expletive in the "lobby" of a gaming site! -- with kids present no less!!! --but I guess some people here are above reproach no matter how low they stoop. George Orwell comes to mind:

"ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS."

Sorry, not this time, folks, letter to DoW is on its way!
      
toutoune - Morgon
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March 2005
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 18:32
another thing i wanted to point out.

Quote:

thekid
I call it bot style multi. After coming in second or third sometimes with the bot, I made sure in the next couple by taking 10 or 13 tix, poor bot never had a chance then.



We read a lot about honor, apologies, cheaters...

What about the respect for the 25 players who played horrible games with a strange player taking more than 10 tickets and then leaving? Were these games interesting for them?

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 20 September 2006 18:36]

      
kotay
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January 2005
Re:thekid back to his "normal" points ? Wed, 20 September 2006 19:37
Yoo,

What I said :
Quote:

Yoo
je viens de voir l histo du kid, et je me demande si il n a pas fait expres de descendre son classement a 1577 pour voir les obj de TEE ? et aussi pour voir les miens en meme temps ?
ca sux leur regle de devoir joué en ouvert, je demande a jouer en fermé!!


kids translation
Quote:


I wonder whether thekid did not reduce his rating to 1577 to see the tickets of TEE? and also to see mine in same time? I ask to play my games with him closed.
.

real translation :I just had a look at kid history, and I wonder if he didnt intended to reduce his rating till 1577 to see TEE tickets ? and also mine ?
thoses rules playing open games sux, I ask to play closed games.



Just tell me where you see that I am saying clearly that you are a cheater ? you just fell attaqued ... dont know the reason why ,maybe you fell guilty --> Psychological war Twisted Evil

and I knew that I would be watched against thekid, but it was for TEEs last game and the other opponent you will play

Cool

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 20 September 2006 20:18]

      
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