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thekid
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Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Mon, 07 May 2007 14:48
Not enough action on the Sopranos, so we've got to do it here.

Player 125977, Nando, Mikkel Thyggywhatever or whatever he wants to change his name to.

It's time, 20 of his last 40 Europe games have been against a decent player, all wins. Another 10 have been other of his favorite fraud accounts. These are good players that he has way over a 90%, some even 100% win ratio, with some of the players having around 50 games played.

I know with a lot of seperated rankings this is bound to happen with these morons, but this is not your Europe #1 by over 100 points. And he's also doing it in Switzerland too. Maia you're the real Europe #1.

I know the only people you have whacked are the overall #1's who've cheated. Would you like me to take a drop to make him #1 there? He has stated that he's not going to stop playing his "friends". Whack him across the board and teach him a lesson.
      
erps
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Mon, 07 May 2007 15:04
sign

enough is enough!

bye, erps
      
SKMorefield
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Mon, 07 May 2007 18:50
Agreed - DoW, PLEASE do something.
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 00:33
His Swiss plays looked fine to me.

His Europe and thus overall and 2 player are a bit over-rated, but that's about it.

I won't complain more till he takes a stab at Big Cities and Mega..lol!
      
thekid
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 16:44
Drake it's not as blatant in Swiss, but he's played Marionpower1, Zaco2 he never loses to these people. Also he played Anjamaus in a 3 with Zaco and then played a few more 2's with it, looks like a new one to use, and guess what no losses. He must have no life, 3 more today with marion in Europe and I'm sure that all of the other guests are him too. He's not that good.
      
erps
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 17:29
Hi

Everybody in their right mind is seeing it now but nowadays most players are silent.

No one above some level is playing with him, personally i don't know any top 50 playing games with him. So most do not count him on the first place and ignore his ranking, but there are few of us who can't live with a fake number one jumping in our face every day Smile

Of course it is not as obvious as in the old days, so i fear there is not much DoW can do (and is willing to do). The only help is the (active) community. Ignoring seems okay for most player, but not for me. We have a lot of problems in the next tournaments or NC...

But don't talk, do something, raise the pressure:
1. Mikkel is back on my tournament ignore list, no tournaments for you in the future!
2. Not only he, but all his "friends" are on the ignore list too from now on. I will watch the history and every account playing and losing to some extent will be on the ignore list. Wrong accusations in some cases? Not my problem Wink, don't play him.
3. I don't know exactly how, but i will throw in all my influence to avoid him founding a NC team. For me it is not acceptable to have such a player playing in this great tournament. I don't think that i am able to support this years NC in such a case.

bye, erps
      
Muddaihrsohn
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 17:39
Some of You didnt accept my kinda radical words last time... now the phrases are changing... although its just a game, its no KINDERGARTEN!

QT - NO!
NC - NO!
PLAY THEM? - NO!


Start!

Mudda
      
Rolli
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 19:44
Because some people here do not understand that they are doing something wrong, all these rules by Mudda are ok for me... exspecially since I haven't played for some weeks... actually I am not really in he mood to play in the next time... for example because of these guys... hm... mad how these guys may destroy my mood...

Greeting

Rolli
      
*player119882
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 21:08
I try to be very careful about accusations, as I think we as a group tilt at windmills a bit, but I have to say this time I agree...

the account currently named MR0255 looks somewhat suspicious, but I really STILL think that, by and large, the history isn't that unusual... I think the gmes played against certain Ids easily could fall within the realm of being friends, rather than cheating.

Now, if y'all have proof of him playing against himself or some such, that's another story, but by the history alone I'll call it inconcoclusive.


Wouldn't it be better to search him out an beat him (thereby lowering his rating) rather than excluding him? That way you wouldn't have to ingore the spot, it would be gone Smile
      
psteinx
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 21:50
Mikkel doesn't seem too anxious to play other tops.

I saw him (her?) on line yesterday, and suggested a game, but was declined. Could have been innocuous, and perhaps was, but when you see a history where a 'top 5' rated player has played virtually no games against other players even in the top 100 in his/her last 200 games or so, it is rather odd. He/she may just prefer playing weaker players, but it doesn't speak much to Mikkel's ability. Michael Jordan did not become the best by playing high-school players.

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 08 May 2007 23:55]

      
2Cutter
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Tue, 08 May 2007 23:19
If you look at Mikkel`s history you can see that he`s playing a lot of people one behind the other. 10, 20 times is not seldom. In march he played a lot of games against yami, and I`m sure that yami is not another account of him. I`m also sure, that marionpower1 is not another account of him, too.

Maybe his style to play is not correct... Embarassed

But I`m not sure.

2Cutter
      
thekid
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Wed, 09 May 2007 01:45
Here are the 2007 (Just Before My Last Post) Stats for Europe and Swiss for Mikkel

Marionpower1 24 - 0

Anjamaus 12 - 0

Here's the stats for just after my post and the only game Mikkel has played since that last post:

Anjamaus 0 - 1

Man, I should be a motivational speaker. This person who has posted a couple of whopping 30's in Europe against Mikkel, now suddenly learns how to play and posts the big W. Amazing you say, no, he's just trying to convince some of you who aren't sure. Amazingly I mentioned Anjamaus then all of sudden boom a win in the only game Mikkel plays after that post.

These are top 500 players, not stiffs where there could be a remote possibility. And there are other accounts and this is just this year.

DOW can we get a response as to why nothing is being done. This only encourages other morons.
      
*player119882
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Wed, 09 May 2007 04:24
Seems like an awful lot of effort for a few points....

This guy/girl is either misunderstood or needs counselling for the points obsession.
      
Zeno
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Wed, 09 May 2007 09:51
Personally, I do not see enough proof here to have DoW whack him, though let me add one extra bit of evidence. He seems to get opponents to play on their non-preferred map.

take yami, a 1482 overall player with 343 US games since the split, but only 49 Europe games. How many of those 49 were against Mikkel? 44. BTW, can that ranking really be right? yami is 6 and 43 in Europe, but the Europe ELO is 1660! I'm going to have to run some simulations with the provisional formula to find out how that works. (yami has also played 42 games of US v Mikkel this year).

take graf arco, a europe specialist. Graf arco has played 10 games v mikkel this year, but only 1 on the EU map. 8 on US (7-1), 1 on EU (1-0) and 1 on CH (1-0). While Graf has played 1216 EU games, there are only 18 US and 1 Swiss. Mikkel seems to rely on playing good people on their weak map.

As for what we should do as a community of players, I agree with erps, but will expand it slightly. In any stats I generate I will omit mikkel. If mikkel is overrated, then wildfire is right, and playing him would help reverse this, but I agree that freezing him out may be more effective. Moreover, we should avoid playing all of those helper accounts people have been mentioning, since they are under-rated and feeding points to mikkel.
      
SYN Stephan1972
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Wed, 09 May 2007 10:43
thekid wrote on Wed, 09 May 2007 00:45

Here are the 2007 (Just Before My Last Post) Stats for Europe and Swiss for Mikkel

Marionpower1 24 - 0

Anjamaus 12 - 0

Here's the stats for just after my post and the only game Mikkel has played since that last post:

Anjamaus 0 - 1

Man, I should be a motivational speaker. This person who has posted a couple of whopping 30's in Europe against Mikkel, now suddenly learns how to play and posts the big W. Amazing you say, no, he's just trying to convince some of you who aren't sure. Amazingly I mentioned Anjamaus then all of sudden boom a win in the only game Mikkel plays after that post.

These are top 500 players, not stiffs where there could be a remote possibility. And there are other accounts and this is just this year.

DOW can we get a response as to why nothing is being done. This only encourages other morons.


Re: Anjamaus

You are way out of line. Anjamaus has played over 4000 games, nearly as many as you. Just because she wins fewer games than you doesn't mean that she is a less important member of the community. Are you saying Anjamaus is actually a second Mikkel-account, and if so do you really believe that he played over 4000 games, just to then deliberately lose 10 or 15?! If not, are you simply accusing Anjamaus of being a cheat for playing Mikkel. Hey, if playing Mikkel makes Anjamaus a cheat, does that make me a cheat for playing her. Uh oh, what about all the people who have played me - are they cheats too then? I believe I may even have played a game against you...

Of course, I am being ridiculous, and if you thought about it for two seconds you would realise that you are being ridiculous too.

Re: Mikkel

Zeno is right. Mikkel likes to ask decent or half-decent people to play him repeatedly on their less favourite maps. That's why he wins so many. That (doesn't necessarily) have anything to do with second accounts, throwing games or other forms of cheating. I personally now also find this extremely tiresome, (especially since in our little series of 8 or 9 games, when I did finally beat him at Europe he then accused me of being lucky Mad).

To erps: So anyone playing Mikkel will be on your ignore list. What about all the people who play the people who play Mikkel? Soon we will be having a McCarthy style commission to determine if people are secret Communists ...sorry Mikkelists.

My personal opinion is that people who have concerns about cheating send them to DOW and let them sort it out. If there is sufficient proof they will do something about it; if not then let it be - and STOP dragging other people into this vendetta.
      
erps
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Wed, 09 May 2007 11:33
Hi

@Stephan
Not anyone on his list. No, only his "friends" with their 0:20 rating. Of course not you Wink

His behaviour is a joke. And i can decide who to play or to allow to enter my tournaments.

I am not saying he is not smart. He is a good/decent player and he is cheating very clever. No real proof, not such ridiculous play like topolino.

I am pretty sure that he is Graf Arco too. Before the europe tournament i got one single pm from Arco asking something, a player who never wrote in the forum. Nando mentioned him in the "best newcomer nomination" (himself and Arco). Yes, yes, chance Rolling Eyes Arco declined in the europe tournament with the same arguments as he and at a very suspicious moment.

There is a scheme in his play. He plays one account for a while, "milking" them dry, then changing to another. Losing one game if he is mentioned again in the forum (yes, thekid is absolutly right about this, it is NOT the first time), playing some unrated and losing them and so on.

I don't want a NC team with him as captain and all his little "friends" in the team. No way!

Some of you may say that he is talking to these players in the lobby and so they are not the same person. Yes, he is not ALL of them, but i think he is giving away presents to his friends (a DoW game for everyone), plays them for half a year and push them to lose to him. I have to check on yami and the others, are they still players?

Personally i think that his behaviour is much more worse than every other cheater so far, because they cheated obvious and crystal clear (easy to spot). He is doing a good "job", dividing the community and pretending to be clean. He's like Basso, using every loophole to go on and on. I hate this.

Ah, btw: I checked his brother too and i think that he is not doing the same. They play unrated now and the winning percentage seems pretty normal to me. He is still invited to join tournaments if he wishs (so, no clan liability from me).

bye, erps
      
OLE sebbo
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Wed, 09 May 2007 12:11
Zeno schrieb am Wed, 09 May 2007 09:51

He seems to get opponents to play on their non-preferred map.



I often saw him in the lobby, trying to persuade people to play him again and again, even if they really dont want to play him anymore, he went on peeving until they finally play with him...

cheers
sebbo
      
Zeno
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 01:58
I wrote above

BTW, can that ranking really be right? yami is 6 and 43 in Europe, but the Europe ELO is 1660! I'm going to have to run some simulations with the provisional formula to find out how that works.


Okay, I ran the simulations. If you begin on a new ranking and keep losing to the same person the provisional formula tries to keep you 200 points below them, but since their ELO is rising because of the winning streak, your ELO goes up as well.

First, if an 1800 player plays the first 20 games versus a clueless n00b and wins every game, then after the first game they are 1800 and 1600, but by the end of the provisional period they are 1817.791 and 1605.397 (If I read the provisional formula correctly. I am still not sure if nA includes the game just played. Here I assume not.)

Next, with the mikkel v yami numbers, I switched to the actual won/loss sequence and started mikkel off at 1850 to get yami's number closer to 1660. The result? After the first 20 games yami wins 2 and we would have mikkel at 1862.569 and yami at 1670.29, so mikkel goes up by 12+. In the next 22 games yami wins 3, hence doing better against mikkel (3/22 is better that 2/20), but mikkel's score would rise to 1878.657, while yami's would fall to 1656.207, so mikkel gets another boost of 16+.

The fault seems to lie with the provisional formula. If yami goes 2 and 18 versus an 1850 player, he should not have a 1670 ELO. The sheet I need is on my other computer, but I would think yami's points coming out of provisional based on that record should have been about 1490. If that had been the case, then mikkel would have lost points by continuing to play yami, instead of gaining points.

Note that the ELO gains mentioned are only on the Europe rankings, as yami was already established on the overall. On the overall score the set would have boosted mikkel's ELO by about 18. It is shocking that anyone can have their score rise by over 17 points by playing a clueless provisional, and by 12 by playing someone who does not understand the map, in their first 20 games. Perhaps it would make little difference below the tops level, but it seems the basis for a new type of cheating via opening new accounts, beefing up their ELO and your own, then draining their ELO. Getting friends to start playing by playing only you should be discouraged by any ethical top. If you wish to teach a friend the game, make it unrated at first. Playing friends who have appropriate ELOs is fine, but having them establish only versus you is not.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 10 May 2007 02:30]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 02:46
There is a Biblical principle which has to do with avoiding even the appearance of evil. To those who think this guy is not cheating or have any doubts, ask yourself, would your history ever remotely look anything like his? Any top who wants to play his friends, especially as often as that, would play UNRATED. Thus, these people are NOT his friends, but are other accounts of his. There can be no other assumption, and DoW should not simply bump his rating, but should cancel this account and the account of all his other 'personalities'. This guy is a disgrace.

This is getting to be an embarassment to the game. If something isn't done what is to stop another from doing it? What is the point of the ranking system at all?



SKM


      
*player119882
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 03:18
@ SKM:

Its definately NOT true that people play not rated with their friends, only a select few people do that.

@ Erps:

I personally think simply having more than one account is manipulating the ratings, which I know lots of people do. Now, if you have PROOF that Nando is playing against himself, I'd imagine DoW can do something about that. Otherwise, he's not doing anything alot of other tops do, he's just doing alot more or it.


As to the topic at hand, it seems to me Nando is taking advantage of the system, which, while reprehensible, isn't cheating. There's no rule against pestering people to play with you repeatedly on a map you don't know.. its just not very nice.

      
DrakeStorm
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 08:42
SKMorefield wrote on Wed, 09 May 2007 17:46

To those who think this guy is not cheating or have any doubts, ask yourself, would your history ever remotely look anything like his? Any top who wants to play his friends, especially as often as that, would play UNRATED. Thus, these people are NOT his friends, but are other accounts of his. There can be no other assumption,
SKM



If he is playing against himself, then I agree he is cheating. But you ask the question, could any top's history look like his and the answer is yes.

Other than the few people he has played many times, his account history looks almost like mine or anyone else who plays a bunch of guests.

I think in another post, he explicitly said he would not stop playing his friends rated, and that is his right, and that is not really cheating, just manipulating the system. If he gets his friends to concede or quit before a game he loses (like he was supposedly doing in multiplayer and GoF), then that is cheating, but just beating your friends alot isn't.

Why not play unrated against his friends like was suggested to him? Well, there are really only 2 reasons I can think of. 1) he doesn't care what other tops think. 2) his friends don't want to play unrated.

Before you dismiss this 2nd reason, I have a friend who is convinced that TTR is all luck. They are convinced that they can beat me. They take it as a personal insult that I would suggest we play unrated. They are female (i.e. irrational, LOL). They would probably play me 20 times and lose 20 times in a row and STILL think all this. I have avoided playing them, instead always suggesting a different game when they mention TTR online. But should my history ever look like Nando's, it is most likely because I failed to get a different game played. Of course Nando has a few people he has beat numerous times, so maybe Nando has multiple irrational friends..lol!

I think Wildfire's suggestion of actually playing him, rather than shunning him is the best approach to bring his rating down. On the other hand, I would exclude him from all tournaments until his behavior comes in line with what is expected of him. Maybe he has no desire to be in any tournaments, in which case there isn't much we can do as a community (unless DoW is somehow convinced he is cheating - i.e playing against himself, etc.).


      
Baron Von Schmidt
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 09:07
Drake I am quite simply amazed as I read your post. I just can't believe it.


You have a friend?

And "she" is female?

Wow.

ok let me just say a few things.

1. I was the FIRST one to mention that Nando was manipulating his ratings. I will not say cheat. He probably is but I won't say it because I can't prove it. I believe it certianly can be proven he is manipulating his rating however.

2. Where was everyone before when I announced Nando to the world? Even Erps said "come on in to the tournament!" Even when I asked to be removed from the tourney Erps kept ol Nando in. Then when Nando left Erps wanted to be very clear that Nando left on his own and it wasn't Erps kicking him out.

3. Nando says they are his friends he plays. He does indeed bother people to play him and many of those DO NOT LIKE BLOCKING and therefore won't block him yet Nando blocks them. It's not a level playing field if you know the one player will not block but you can block them if you need to.

4. Nando WON"T play tops. It took forever to get him to play me just a few games (several of which he got very lucky on) but I still beat him soundly more games and of course he wouldn't play THOSE games rated no matter what. So Nando just isn't that good of a player. It's a fact. I'd happily play him 20 games unrated or not.

5. I am amazed wildfire still defends him. I'll bet Wildfire that you work for the innocence project, have an ACLU card in your wallet and think O.J. is innocent Twisted Evil Just kidding Wildfire. But seriously dude...

o.k. that is enough for now.

B

remember Nando I didn't call you a cheater!
      
thekid
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 14:50
Drake go ahead play your friend, you've never done anything that resembles this. And there would be a difference there too. Your friend might be an 1000 - 1100 player where you could win 20 in a row. You'd gain almost nothing. And guess what they'd get better and actually beat you once in awhile, not just after we post about them. If your friend was a top 500 player and you won that many in a row it would look suspicious but the odds of that happening are extremely low and then when you don't have any other "friends" where that happens it could be a possibility, but not with so many "friends".

I forgot good old DieSuperlok who he's a whopping 31-1 against. And for those who say oh he's playing them on maps they don't know, these people aren't bad on Europe and also theres a bunch of games on U.S. map with no Nando losses.

I see Anjamaus threw up a 35 this morning in Europe. Thats quite a few of those. How can anyone who is paying attention with the rating they have have so many 30's in Europe, against dear Nando. I know how its done.

I smell either a DieSuperlok win or a Marionpower1 win coming soon. Hey Nando make it on U.S., you're undefeated against them there too.
      
Nayeli
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 15:56
As i detected in the last weeks, you guys are not really different to women (I love that gender stereotype Rolling Eyes ). Your agitation against Nando reminds me on this stuff, I knew from children in school or kindergarden.

Let me show you a little example: a little guy goes to school, taking a box of sweets with him. Let me name this boy Cameron. When arriving school, he offers several of his friends those candies. There is at least one guy, who gets no offer, because he is a kind of outsider in class. Let me name this boy Nando. So after finishing the lessons, its ringing for break and all children are leaving the classroom for enjoying the short time between the lessons outside the school building, but Nando. He stays, and can't let his eyes of this cute little sweets box. He would give his right arm for getting one of those candies, but he had not get offered one. So he is thinking about taking one of them covert, because now, all the other guys left the room. Just that moment, he is fetching up one of the sweets, he is caught red-handed by Cameron, entering the classroom right now. Directly, he lets loose on Nando, who actually regrets his behaviour, but has no time to excuse himself, and to explain the situation to Cameron. Cause of being so hard punished Nando (in german: stellt sich stur), and does not say anything yet.
Two days went by, and the Cameron including his friends, are angry with Nando. This day another guy, let me mention him with Joe, brings along a bag of jelly bears.
He also offers several Persons some of these sweets, but Nando. In the break, there is happening the same procedure as two days before, and again, Nando gets caught. This time, it is not only Joe who lunges at Nando. Cameron and his friends also punish him again. From now on, Nando is the whipping boy. He knows his behaviour was wrong but the fact, that all the other children irks him the whole school day, makes him becoming more and more goatish. He would like to reconcile with all his schoolmates, but he has fear of the crowd. Probably, Nando will have the reputation to be a sweets robber for life. Although he can maybe change his behaviour, and try to be nice to everyone, the crowd would avoid him because of his "fame" and won't give him a new chance for proving his real character.

So all you guys out there, who knows that kind of story as well!? It is easy to align with like-minded people, because everyone knows: A group is stronger the one single person, isn't it?

A few weeks ago, I read a posting of thadd, in which she told us, that the atmosphere in the forum was much gentler one or two years ago. Newcomers became support, by solving problems, and here and there you can read funny postings. The last few months a shadow of hating adumbrates the forum and you can feel deep antipathy of some players against other players in the air. Sorry but I get hard worked up about this situation.

I wont take Nandos part, and hey you mean I like his behaviour??? NO!!! Furthermore: Can I understand you angriness??? YES, of course!!! But you act like these mentioned kids, which were robbed their sweets, only that in this case we don't talk about candies or jelly bears, but rather about you hard and fair earned ELO.

I want to clarify: I do not take someones part up in here.

Yesterday in the evening I talked to Nando in the Lobby, because his behaviour (sebbo mentioned in his post) annoys me once again. I catered him for this manner and because he wont talk about it again and again in the Lobby, he opened a game, in which talked a whole time about his TTR-performance.
In some case I agree with him and finally he realized, that he made some mistakes and that the acting in forum / lobby cant go on like this. He promised to change some of his attitudes of playing his friends and I gave him the advice, to open password protected games like anybody else does, so that every player who wants to enter his game and play him is free to do that. He can play his favourite maps. Furthermore he asked me, if he should play all games with his friends unrated. In my opinion this is nonsense, but I told him that its also nonsense to play 500 games in a row against weak players. He would like to play more tops, but knew that there are several, that wont play him. The final achievement of our conversation is fixed here: Nando will open password protected games in future and promised to downsize playing games with his friends.

I agree with stephan1972 as well. Don't include Nandos friends in this discussion. Some of them cant understand English and have no chance to justify themselves. Its unfair isn't it???

Joe you also played the swiss-map for a long time and upgraded slowly but surely your ELO, didn't you?
I think everybody should be able to play those maps he likes best and everybody should be free to do what he/she likes. Erps I am of course not talking about cheating Wink
We were all born as choirboys but nobody will die by staying one.
Last few words: everybody has got attitudes other people dislike. When we keep getting het up over those performances we have to get angry the whole day, haven't we???

My proposal for the future: Let's wait a few weeks and see if there will be a change in Nandos playing manner or not. Give him a new chance and stop those agitations for a while.

I can imagine, that their will be several players, that can not await to comment on this posting with ratty annotations or explanations. BUT if you will think about those comments for a while, you will hopefully recognize that you would change your meaning the next day.

The End Wink

I hope everybody has a nice, good-humoured day.

Greetings Nay

P.S. all names, mentioned in the introductory example are of course free founded Very Happy

Special Thanks to my translater, who helped me to write this post Smile
      
chrismmm_1987
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Vainqueur Single Player World Championship AdR 2009

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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 16:18
Quote:

He would like to play more tops, but knew that there are several, that wont play him.


Hmm, but he won't play against several tops e.g. me. the reason is, that I blocked him in one game long times ago the longest route (and win the game - it was in europe). since that point, he isn't ready to play against me cause of this mentioned reason.

besides this: nice history, nayeli Wink

cu, christian
      
Rolli
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 16:34
I absoloutly agree with Nayeli.
      
erps
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 16:39
Hi

This is an outstanding post. Thank you very much!

I gave Nando a chance, he declined. I am distrustful now. Is he going to change something because of the pressure of the last days or because he really means it? Or he is just afraid of not being part of the next NC and this is his last try to save him and after NC he is doing the same? I don't know.

However, i am even willing to give a third (or fourth) chance. And so far not even Nando was on my blacklist again... Sometimes you have to say things to raise the pressure Wink

bye, erps
      
Baron Von Schmidt
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 16:41
Nay,

I mentioned long ago that if Nando would admit the manipulation and say he was sorry that I was willing to completely forgive and forget. If I remember correctly other players also said they would do that.

Then He was able to clearly see just how forgiving a bunch we can be (even those of us who are the quickest to sharpen stakes and get ropes ready) when Zug apologized.

I think people are just really irked that even after warning after warning that things keep happening.

However.

Once again I offer Nando my personal forgiveness if he will just apologize and stop all manipulation and play more top players.

He doesn't have to play his "friends" non rated but he does need to stop convincing these friends to play on maps they don't want to, stop playing those he knows won't block when he does (thus giving him easy wins) and stop playing any other second accounts or friends who lose on purpose or let him win because he asks them to in a game.

I did not jump on Nando right away. I noticed some suspicious behavior and pointed it out. Nando could have easily said stopped "eyeing" the candy and as time went on become a real part of the community where candy is shared to all those who wish. He chose to go a different way. As for me, I will still offer him Candy but I'd like to see a REAL change in attitude.

During the series I played with him we were both civil and kind. I would have gladly continued with that series and asked for more games but it was Nando who refused. I have my thoughts on why he refused but who knows.

So yeah Nando play your friends. Just don't play the ones who lose 40 games in a row to you rated. It's pretty stupid and I can't imaging how fun it is to crush someone every game. I also can't figure out why ANYONE would want to play you when they lose every single game. Is that really fun for them? I know I wouldn't want to play basketball with Michael Jordan every day.

Some very good points Nay and I acknowledge me responsibility in this whole mess, I would love to see Nando do the same.

I offer forgiveness to anyone willing to admit error and try to do better. I know I am suppossed to forgive everyone whether or not they are sorry or are willing to change but sorry (Monika) I'm just not there yet. (Some of those I can, but not all, I'm working on it Smile )

Peace


Baron
      
SKMorefield
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 18:44
Most of us are gamer-geeks of some sort, right? How many friends can we possibly have? Laughing Laughing

Nah, they aren't 'friends'... just 'personalities' of pathetic inDUHviduals. Come on people, stop being naive. Even Baron, the master of the multiple personality, doesn't have a history that looks anything like this. At least have a sense of honor with your fun, geez...

I don't even play my wife, a top 100 player (when she plays) rated, because people know who she is and it wouldn't look right if I got on a winning streak.

How is there any argument whatsoever that his history looks anything like that of most tops? Non-cheating tops don't have 40 games winning streaks against various guests, over and over and over...




SKM

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:48]

      
Nayeli
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Thu, 10 May 2007 19:20
Dear Scott,

it was just a try and if he doesn't change his behavior you can call me nayiveli Rolling Eyes
      
*player119882
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Fri, 11 May 2007 04:13
@ Erps: Definately not in the ACLU.. I'ma conservative actually (though not a supporter of our wonderful Rolling Eyes president) I'm not disputing the Nando may be using the ELO system to his advantage....I just don't think that's cheating... is it a bit sad? absolutely! but not cheating.

@ SKM: I think if you play your wife you SHOULD play rated... I'd have no concern.

      
SKMorefield
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Fri, 11 May 2007 13:29
How about I just borrow her account, play about 30 games, let her win 10 of them (or so) just to make it look legit, and get myself some points for free.

The 'appearance' of evil... is all I'm saying.

Any ethical top will avoid it.



SKM
      
*player119882
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Fri, 11 May 2007 16:01
So you're saying since you COULD cheat, that's true of anyone.

I'd imagine if you're wife suddenly played 30 games in a day, which she's NEVER done, them play you 10 or 12 times rated, again something that's never happened, I'd be suspicious.

If you player three or four rated games with her tomorrow, I wouldn't be.. its a big difference.

If you won all 4 (or even say 7 or Cool and were still married afterwards, I'd be VERY suspicious. Wink

To be honest, ANYONE playing with someone else more than 5 or 6 times with completely one sided results is a bit suspicious, which is what y'all are saying.

What I'm saying is its not proof, and unless someone has some, this is a moot conversation.

      
erps
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Fri, 11 May 2007 23:04
Hi

Wildfire2099 schrieb am Fri, 11 May 2007 04:13

@ Erps: (though not a supporter of our wonderful Rolling Eyes president)



What? You are not supporting me? At least you are calling me wonderful, that's okay...

bye, erps
elected president of ttr

      
*player119882
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Sat, 12 May 2007 02:41
Heh, I was referring to everyone's favorite American, George Bush... of course I support you as TTR board president Erps Wink

you da man, even if you don't understand ratings Wink
      
Baron Von Schmidt
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Sat, 12 May 2007 21:20
And as long as you understand Wildfire it was me who suspected you of being a card carrying member of the ACLU and not Erps.

You say you are conservative but don't support our President??? What kind of conservative are you????? Shocked Shocked Very Happy Very Happy

ok there I am just kidding. I am also fairly conservative but think Bush has done some pretty stupid things. (as opposed to BEING fairly stupid as most Europeons seem to think).

But really my friend, you were sounding like a liberal hippie defense attorney. You know the ones. Even the famous ones on T.V. have to slick back their long hair and try to hide it in pony tails when they wear their suits and are on the air. I'm not sure why but it seems that a requirement to being a famous, publicity seeking, criminal and obvious dirt of the earth defending, attorney you have to have long hair. (beards are optional but preferred, mustaches seem to be less optional, especially on the women)

And now back to the subject. So Nay after this nice talk you had with Nando and after he must have read these posts has ANYONE heard anything from him? Has he changed his behavior at all like he suggested he might to Nay?

I'd be interested to know

Baron

      
2Cutter
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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Sat, 12 May 2007 22:37
Of course, Baron, he did!!!!!!!!!!!!
He changed his name.

Welcome Marko Marin!!!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing
      
Dandy
Member

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Re:Hey DOW It's Time for a Whacking Mon, 14 May 2007 21:23
That's indeed the sort of change I would expect from such a player! Laughing Laughing Laughing

Dandy
      
    
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