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gunhawk
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Major

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June 2004
Are we all going to be Generals? Sat, 07 May 2011 16:21
Shouldn't it be a *lot* harder to get promoted to the upper ranks? Many of us are Majors or Lt. Colonels already. It seems to me that we're making rank too quickly and soon all of the regular players will be Generals. I would rather see some more difficult to achieve ribbons. Authentic campaign ribbons would be nice too.
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Baron du Rail

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Sat, 07 May 2011 17:26
gunhawk wrote on Sat, 07 May 2011 18:21

Shouldn't it be a *lot* harder to get promoted to the upper ranks? Many of us are Majors or Lt. Colonels already. It seems to me that we're making rank too quickly and soon all of the regular players will be Generals. I would rather see some more difficult to achieve ribbons. Authentic campaign ribbons would be nice too.


Even once you've reached Lt. Colonel, you're about half way to the highest rank...so there's still plenty of room for improvement! And don't forget that each promotion becomes more time-consuming and difficult to achieve.

We're already seeing a pyramid effect with a few dedicated players reaching Lt. Colonel and then more players in each rank all the way down. But to answer your question; no, I don't think it should be crazy hard to get Major or Lt. Colonel. Razz

Like any video game, once you know how to get promoted it's more a matter of time than skill and this system isn't any different. If players are willing to put in the time to find out how to get promoted, and then the time to actually achieve that promotion then I say 'more power to them!' As the higher ranks become available, I think less and less people will gain those simple because they don't have time to play the game as much.

I do agree that there could be some harder ribbons (like the Overrun ribbon that nobody has gained) but again, once people know how to get them, they'll just have to keep trying until they succeed! Cool

But that's just my opinion, and others might disagree. Smile

[Mis à jour le: Sat, 07 May 2011 17:28]

      
Clexton27
Senior Member
Sapin d'Arnhem

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February 2007
Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Sat, 07 May 2011 18:28
I am still holding out for the EMPEROR insignia.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQj-jrLGT6eQ-r9NyIPlcDJIEQ_64yzb6MofH7XbH1Hh3uVk2Z6

[Mis à jour le: Sat, 07 May 2011 18:28]

      
gunhawk
Senior Member
Major

Messages: 169
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June 2004
Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Sat, 07 May 2011 20:06
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 07 May 2011 11:26

gunhawk wrote on Sat, 07 May 2011 18:21

Shouldn't it be a *lot* harder to get promoted to the upper ranks? Many of us are Majors or Lt. Colonels already. It seems to me that we're making rank too quickly and soon all of the regular players will be Generals. I would rather see some more difficult to achieve ribbons. Authentic campaign ribbons would be nice too.


Even once you've reached Lt. Colonel, you're about half way to the highest rank...so there's still plenty of room for improvement! And don't forget that each promotion becomes more time-consuming and difficult to achieve.

We're already seeing a pyramid effect with a few dedicated players reaching Lt. Colonel and then more players in each rank all the way down. But to answer your question; no, I don't think it should be crazy hard to get Major or Lt. Colonel. Razz

Like any video game, once you know how to get promoted it's more a matter of time than skill and this system isn't any different. If players are willing to put in the time to find out how to get promoted, and then the time to actually achieve that promotion then I say 'more power to them!' As the higher ranks become available, I think less and less people will gain those simple because they don't have time to play the game as much.

I do agree that there could be some harder ribbons (like the Overrun ribbon that nobody has gained) but again, once people know how to get them, they'll just have to keep trying until they succeed! Cool

But that's just my opinion, and others might disagree. Smile


I dunno. Lt. Colonel is only two ranks away from Brigadier General and the game is still in Beta!
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Baron du Rail

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Sat, 07 May 2011 20:27
gunhawk wrote on Sat, 07 May 2011 22:06

I dunno. Lt. Colonel is only two ranks away from Brigadier General and the game is still in Beta!


It's true...for beta, players are able to get pretty far up the promotion ladder. But look at the crazy number of battles a lot of people have played to get to that rank!! Very Happy It'll take forever for a casual player to become a Lt. Colonel if they only play a game or two each week.

There are going to be players who earn promotions quickly and they will reach the highest rank before the rest of us. This may be because they have time to play thousands of games or because they figure out what is required and work toward that goal. This truth can't be changed, though making it harder to gain achievements will slow these players down. However, by slowing the fast players down, DoW may discourage the casual players because promotions will become so hard to attain that people will give up.

Eventually, people who stick with the game will reach the highest rank (and it sounds like you're worried this will happen faster than you want). Eventually players will become Generals of the Army and I don't think it's necessary for DoW to extend the ranking system to draw the process out. Hopefully people are playing the game for more than just their promotions! Smile

I hope I'm making sense here and it's true that DoW could make the early promotions a little more difficult...but in the military, aren't early promotions a bit easier than later promotions? Rolling Eyes
      
Mighty Jim 83
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Starshiy Leytenant

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Sat, 07 May 2011 21:44
As we have a new Duke of Cambridge here in the UK, it seems worthwhile to post a quote from the previous one (Grandson of George III for anyone who's interested). He once said, in response to the abolition of the purchase system in the army "Brains, I don't believe in brains!" How about a return, then to the Napoleonic-era system, where once you made lieutenant, you could just buy your way up the ranks every time a comission became available? Got to be cheaper than buying enough ingots to finally win Anrhem as the Axis/Omaha as the Allies...
      
gunhawk
Senior Member
Major

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June 2004
Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Sat, 07 May 2011 23:31
>>by slowing the fast players down, DoW may discourage the casual players because promotions will become so hard to attain that people will give up.<<

I hadn't thought of it that way. I forgot that many players are so oriented toward gaining higher "levels" after playing games like World of Warcraft that without that accomplishment mechanic they might feel like they aren't gaining anything. In the real military Enlisted troops gained three or four ranks during the first four years. Officers probably just two ranks in four years. And then gained another rank every few years. Making Major in just a few months just felt strange to me. But what the hell, it's a game, right? LOL.



      
Clexton27
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Sapin d'Arnhem

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Mon, 21 May 2012 22:35
Yes, I am excited to be the newest General in the ranks.

Here is my path:

Since being promoted to Colonel I won ALL the prior scenarios from both sides.
Played 245 Expert games.
- 74 distinct wins
- 90/137 games won against real opponents
- 71/108 games won against Johnny
- won at least 10 victories from each side from ALL four theaters
- Became a Brig. General on my 1800th career game in the Online regular version

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 21 May 2012 23:11]

      
david5272
Senior Member
Lieutenant Colonel

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March 2007
Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Mon, 21 May 2012 22:45
good for you stevens

not sure if or when I will ever get to the next level, I don't keep track on paper what I have played or how many times I played. Not even sure if I played all the scenarios yet, let alone track if I would each scenario I played.

      
Jeronimon
Senior Member
Brigadier

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November 2007
Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Tue, 22 May 2012 08:10
gunhawk wrote on Sat, 07 May 2011 23:31

Making Major in just a few months just felt strange to me. But what the hell, it's a game, right? LOL.

I agree with you that up to Major the promotions come rather quickly. Especially if you play a lot.

But after that the hill indeed get's steeper. Lt Col is described as "one long slog" but still fairly easy for players that play a lot. Getting to Colonel takes more perseverance, and to get to general is no simple undertaking.

There is a lot of fun for waiting for you in the future.
      
van Voort
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General Mayor

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41
Especially if you play a lot, and care about being promoted

If you don't, then you can be a very good player and not get the promotion
      
Flemish_Havy
Senior Member
Lieutenant Colonel

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October 2011
Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Tue, 22 May 2012 20:39
Gunhawk, i must disagree sir ! Surprised


I ll tell you my story to clarify:

Starting date memoir 16/10/2011.

"I saw the free to try version on Steam, a militairy strategy, hmmm, "lets give that a go !"
Since i was recovering off from work, i had way to much spare time at that moment in time anyways. Rolling Eyes

Man, was i a lucker: "This was THE game i missed out for years ! " From the first match i was totaly HOOKED ! Smile

I made major in 5 days ! I made Lt.Col in under 14. Surprised "

Getting the lower ranks, might be a bit easy, but takes considerabely enough time for the casual, normal life player i think.
It is a good mix i feel to keep people intrested en incouraged ! Rolling Eyes

Well, sir, since then i havent bin able to play that unreal much, falling back to normal life activities and falling back into a wider maybe healtier pathern off variety intrests, playing also other things, not only memoir in my spare time. Smile

I even took a time off from MM44OL, but i am still playing memoir !
I m meanwhile the proud owner off the full version off the boardgame by now and i invite friends to get to know the game ! Smile
Done my first tournement IRL ! Cool

Eager for expansion(s) that come out this year, hasitating if i would paint my boardgame figures or not !? Confused
Thinking about making my own historical scenario, ...

Well, i got 1691 multiplayer games under my belt now, but even with that much i am still on my way to get the 'Eagle' for Colonel ! Rolling Eyes
Getting close, maybe not that 'unreal hungry' any more as at first, but still playing memoir alot sir ! Cool
It is a mighty loooooonnnnng way to the top sir ! Rolling Eyes

I also aint got all medals yet, there are so many historical achievements to go for, ...

OMG so much Memoir and so little time ! Laughing

As you see sir, ones you get Memoir 44 realy running in your blood, you aint getting ride off it no more ! I m convinced i ll take this game with me on my ultimate journey ! Cool

The only negative experience that i have with the game is unfortunately still there, but i aint quiting to appeal for a correction ! Rolling Eyes

" What horrifies me in MM44OL is that the points system doesnt follow the true spirit off the game, playing memoir's historical scenarios from both sides as a match ! "

Now we got people who 'chicken out' when they need to play the 'more difficult' side ! People who only wanne play 'the easy' side. ' They should be penalised !' Mad
On the other hand, getting or loosing more of less points taking into account the diffrence in ranks is brilliant ! Smile

Good for me i passed that stage now, since no point sytem is gone spoil my game any longer, only some unreal crappy dice could spoil it a bit sometimes, but that all in the game ! Very Happy

" I now play Memoir 44 in any form toward the true spirit off the game, having a good time with my opponent and playing a game to have FUN ! That doesnt say in any way i am willing to loose, i ll always give it my best shot ! " Cool

Lets see where this BETA Laughing brings us in time ...

p.s. Catch you for a game some time soon i hope !
p.s.2 I should post smaller, less and play more ... Razz

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 22 May 2012 20:56]

      
sam1812
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Brigadier General

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Wed, 23 May 2012 04:27
Congratulations, Stevens, on a rank well earned.

Now you've got me wondering what I'm missing in my quest to get that bird off my shoulder. I've got:

> 153 Expert wins (in 261 Expert games)
> At least one win in 67 different Expert scenarios
> 33 Expert scenarios with wins on both sides
> At least 7 Expert scenarios on each front with wins on both sides

Jamesherrell has only 121 Expert wins in his career to date, including only 6 and 8 as Allies in Pacific and Med, respectively. Stevie_02 had a total of 7 Expert Med wins as Colonel, and I saw only 86 altogether.

I haven't re-won all of the Official scenarios from both sides as Colonel, but I do have 214 Official wins as Colonel, including at least 20 on each side of each front. I note that Stevie_02 didn't even come close to re-winning all the Official scenarios, even including bot games.

I've won each of the "new" Official scenarios from both sides, though a couple of those came before my promotion to Colonel. Interestingly, according to my tally, Stevie_02 had never won Rzhev as Allies at all at the time of his promotion, except against the bot.

Any idea what I might be missing?
      
Phread
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Baron du Rail

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Wed, 23 May 2012 09:39
Sam,

I'd like to be able to ask your question but I cannot. There is no clear pattern of required win numbers or scenario wins amongst the Brigadiers. I analysed the 1st 9 and could find no obvious pattern - unless that is the pattern Question Question Question

All I can say is keep playing and have fun.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 24 May 2012 01:03]

      
Quit2
Senior Member
Historien accompli

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Wed, 23 May 2012 23:48
sam1812 wrote on Wed, 23 May 2012 04:27

Congratulations, Stevens, on a rank well earned.

Now you've got me wondering what I'm missing in my quest to get that bird off my shoulder. I've got:

> 153 Expert wins (in 261 Expert games)
> At least one win in 67 different Expert scenarios
> 33 Expert scenarios with wins on both sides
> At least 7 Expert scenarios on each front with wins on both sides

Jamesherrell has only 121 Expert wins in his career to date, including only 6 and 8 as Allies in Pacific and Med, respectively. Stevie_02 had a total of 7 Expert Med wins as Colonel, and I saw only 86 altogether.

I haven't re-won all of the Official scenarios from both sides as Colonel, but I do have 214 Official wins as Colonel, including at least 20 on each side of each front. I note that Stevie_02 didn't even come close to re-winning all the Official scenarios, even including bot games.

I've won each of the "new" Official scenarios from both sides, though a couple of those came before my promotion to Colonel. Interestingly, according to my tally, Stevie_02 had never won Rzhev as Allies at all at the time of his promotion, except against the bot.

Any idea what I might be missing?

Sam, I don't think the expert wins only count after becoming a colonel. Those from before seem to count too. So if you compare yourself to others, take their wins from before in mind too.

I also think you need 100 distinct wins in expert.
Distinct means: two wins on the same side of the same scenario only count as 1 win.
      
Phread
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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Thu, 24 May 2012 01:12
A great theory Wim, but not supported by analysis of a range of Brigadiers when they were promoted.

No one has given a theory that fits all the data.

For example I only had 56 distinct SFTF wins (from 106 SFTF wins from 194 SFTF battles against real opponents) when promoted to Brigadier.
      
Quit2
Senior Member
Historien accompli

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Thu, 24 May 2012 02:12
Phread wrote on Thu, 24 May 2012 01:12

A great theory Wim, but not supported by analysis of a range of Brigadiers when they were promoted.

No one has given a theory that fits all the data.

For example I only had 56 distinct SFTF wins (from 106 SFTF wins from 194 SFTF battles against real opponents) when promoted to Brigadier.

Then I have some other advise for Sam: talk to AIwan.
He predicted when I'd be brigadier general, and he was right about it. He told me: win 2 to 4 more SFTF battles that you haven't won previously. After that, you'll be promoted after your next regular battle.
4 SFTF wins and 1 regular battle later, I was promoted.

AIwan never told me what his formula was. He hasn't posted it either. If he doesn't want to, I don't think he should.
It's just clear that you need alot of SFTF battle wins, on different scenarios. And then 1 regular battle. I think that is enough of info for people chasing the promotion.

It's actually when I was planning to give up on promotion and play a bit less that he told me to push on just a little further and the promotion hit. That's what I like about the promotions. They come when you no longer expect them.
      
Phread
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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Thu, 24 May 2012 05:43
The best advice for anyone seeking promotion is to play on and have fun.

I think there should be some mystery about the requirements.

I am disappointed that the "recipe" for promotion up to and including Colonel is so well known when we/I had to do it the hard way.

GHeintze helped me to get to Colonel - for which I remain extremely grateful.

And to the original question Are we all going to be Generals?

No of course not some of us intend to be "General of the Army" Cool Cool Cool
And some are happy at another rank.
      
Jeronimon
Senior Member
Brigadier

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Thu, 24 May 2012 08:13
@Phread

That's a bit strange: you say that you are disappointed that the knowledge is out there while you (the "frontrunners" ) had t find out for yourself. yet you are rate full to Gheintze for helping you.

That the knowledge is out there is, in my opinion, more people helping more people instead of one on one like with you and Gheintze. In the former case we all help each other in the latter case it's more of a "who you know" question.

I for one am grateful for the information shared, but I am also glad that there are spoiler tags on most of the threads. In gam I always ask if people want to find out for themselves, which is their right.

But a lot of the players like more information on how to promote and get frustrated that they have no idea how to get to that next promotion. Sharing our knowledge with them I think is no bad habit because it also stimulates "conversation" and thus the building of the M44 community.

I can imagine how it must have been in "the early days" when everyone was working in the dark. (Especially now "working" towards Brigadier) I compliment all of those before on their tenacity and perseverance and take you all as example.

I can understand a feeling of "they have it easy now" because the newer recruits can follow already travelled paths. But it is still no mean feat getting to Lt Colonel, Colonel and Brigadier.


But of course the best method is to have fun!
A lot of players are geared towards promotion, but in the Colonels I speak I see a tendency to not strive for promotion very hard, but have fun exploring the SFTF scenarios and keeping an eye out for promotion. Where some of us were very promotion driven before, we seem to get more "relaxed" after getting to Colonel. Cool

But as always: Good luck and have fun! is more important (to me at least) than promotion. And for some of us that is following in treaden footsteps, for others it is finding out for themselves.

I have found in the past half year that in this community there is room for both of those (and a lot of other opinions too.) That tolerance is what makes this, for me, such a welcoming and friendly community. (Where we nonetheless try to destroy each other totally each time we meet. Mad )
      
clorofila
Senior Member
Historien accompli

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Re:Are we all going to be Generals? Thu, 24 May 2012 19:49
Let me just add one other thing to what Jeronimon said: different people have fun doing different things; in my humble opinion, it is completely acceptable that people have fun by trying to go up the ranking ladder, primarily. I, for instance, don't mind too much about the officer ranks, but I certainly use them as a "storyline" for my playing experience.
What I mean is that it is not because players are trying to gather information about rank promotion that they are not having fun Smile
      
    
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