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thekid
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 07:32
Pilke is right. In the first tourney el soy was the 7th seed, so we did reseed. It doesn't matter what is done this time, there will be no stopping me.
      
ElSoyokaze
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 07:49
Okay, rek, now I'm really interested in how the future rounds will work out. I need to know when I have to be thekid's brick wall. kthx.

--ElSoy
      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 09:15
When rek opened the registrations, I explained my feelings about the organization and said I wouldn't ply. Some players made me changed my mind, I apologized for what I said to rek and I decided to follow the rules.

But now I have to say that I'm bothered by all these "top ranked players" who don't want to consider a tournament as a challenge. Some only want to meet the lowest ranked to secure their place in finals . Mad

After the success of the first tournament, it was said that it would be nice to be more players( 29 players is a good number !)


But if the top ranked want to be sure to be in finals, remove the 25 lowest ranked and begin right now the semifinals ! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

PS : Onyx puffin, are you ready ? Wink

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 02 June 2005 09:17]

      
redPEPPER
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 11:13
No wonder people care about ranking so much if we're gonna be reseeded based on it between each round. Shocked I'm also in favor of a bracket-type system, should it only be to reduce the impact of ranking, but I actually don't care much anymore and I'll play my 4 games no matter what. As far as I'm concerned we're beyond saving this tournie anyway Razz

Notes for future tournaments, assuming we want to keep the ranking drama to a minimum and have a tournie that's self-sufficient:

- Let's have only one initial seeding based on rank, in order to minimize the impact of rank on the tournament's outcome.

- Let's have a few qualification rounds, possibly in the form of a swiss draw. This will give the low rankers a chance to play several matches. This will allow everyone to only play people of their skill level after a couple of rounds. This also allow flexibility in the number of players, and making it an open challenge is not a problem since swiss draw can accommodate any even number of players.

- After qualification of, say, 8 people, let's have direct elimination rounds, bracket-type, with classic seeding based on the result of the qualification rounds (and no reseeding in-between).
      
pilke
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 12:41
I thought everyone knew, that we are doing the playing partner selection the way it was done in first tournament. It seems now that people didn't know. So it is same for me if we change it or not.

If we change it, I think the formula of onyx with the 4 groups is the best. (and easier too, than reseeding)

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 02 June 2005 14:59]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 14:24
redPEPPER wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 05:13

No wonder people care about ranking so much if we're gonna be reseeded based on it between each round. Shocked I'm also in favor of a bracket-type system, should it only be to reduce the impact of ranking, but I actually don't care much anymore and I'll play my 4 games no matter what. As far as I'm concerned we're beyond saving this tournie anyway Razz

Notes for future tournaments, assuming we want to keep the ranking drama to a minimum and have a tournie that's self-sufficient:

- Let's have only one initial seeding based on rank, in order to minimize the impact of rank on the tournament's outcome.

- Let's have a few qualification rounds, possibly in the form of a swiss draw. This will give the low rankers a chance to play several matches. This will allow everyone to only play people of their skill level after a couple of rounds. This also allow flexibility in the number of players, and making it an open challenge is not a problem since swiss draw can accommodate any even number of players.

- After qualification of, say, 8 people, let's have direct elimination rounds, bracket-type, with classic seeding based on the result of the qualification rounds (and no reseeding in-between).




Beyond saving?? I think the tourney will work out fine! We have 11 of the top 20 players in the 'world.' Not bad for a tourney organized in forums which only a small percentage of players read. Whoever wins this thing will have a true gaming accomplishment under his/her belt, greater than any live tourney (at GenCon or wherever) simply because the internet allows the 'gathering' of these top players from all over the world!

My vote (if Rek decides to consider these postings as votes) is for Onyx's plan. This is like the NCAA bracket of 64, except 3 of the 1 seeds get a bye instead of a patsy. Of course I'll play and be content with whatever is decided.

However if you go with this, please, and I mean PUULEEEAZZZE take me out of Rek's division!!! (Not looking past Bassie at all, who I've played before and is dangerous...) Well, if I make it and play like I had nothing to lose perhaps I would play better. Smile

As far as qualification rounds, that is a nice idea too at some point.


SKM
      
akrasia
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 16:20
tex23bm wrote on Wed, 01 June 2005 19:45


Playercrams, define SPort, cause Soccer doesn't count. That's more theatre, those idiots are actors, real athletes bounce back from a hard foul and take command of the game, not dive on the ground, moan at the ref, and ask for a freebie.


Tex is banned from the tournament. Wink

Ok, fine, I'll forgive him... he's young (and American), he doesn't know better. Wink

      
akrasia
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 16:23
I'd be happy to go with Onyx's proposal. Any objections?

For the future I think a Swiss draw would be great, I've just been trying to keep it simple to minimize how much work I need to put into it. Smile Whoever wants to organize the next tournament can pick the format.



[Mis à jour le: Thu, 02 June 2005 16:26]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 17:18
plcrams wrote on Wed, 01 June 2005 23:17


Quote:

Playercrams, define SPort, cause Soccer doesn't count. That's more theatre, those idiots are actors, real athletes bounce back from a hard foul and take command of the game, not dive on the ground, moan at the ref, and ask for a freebie.


Yeah, not much of a soccer fan myself. But, in terms of world importance, you probably can't go past it.

I think you need healthy international competition and interest. So above the American sports you'd have soccer, athletics, tennis, boxing, rugby, cricket, and probably a few others. And Ticket to Ride!




World importance?? Perhaps, and I know that I'm not the arbiter of everything popular, but as an American citizen here in the hills I can't tell you the name of a single soccer team. Our newspapers don't cover it. It just seems like such a boring sport, players running up and down a field kicking a ball, and such low scoring!!

Now, REAL football (you know, the NFL and college variety) IMO is something worth watching on a crisp fall Saturday and Sunday for hours on end, EVERY fall Saturday and Sunday for hours on end... for people who like to spend their time doing that sort of thing anyway. Rolling Eyes


      
JulianZ
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 17:49
Le message n'a pas de contenu

[Mis à jour le: Fri, 06 January 2006 23:28]

      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 17:50
I appreciate neither soccer nor american football ( its name in french ) but I was laughing in front of my screen.


Don't resent my comments please, it's just for fun Wink
SKMorefield écrit le Thu, 02 June 2005 17:18


World importance??


yes SKM, world is not limited to the US Wink

Quote:


Perhaps, and I know that I'm not the arbiter of everything popular, but as an American citizen here in the hills I can't tell you the name of a single soccer team. Our newspapers don't cover it.
I confirm : you're an american boy in an american world Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:

It just seems like such a boring sport, players running up and down a field kicking a ball, and such low scoring!!

Don't say it too loudly!
Much more people than you could imagine appreciate it much more than " your football" Wink

Quote:


Now, REAL football (you know, the NFL and college variety) IMO is something worth watchingon a crisp fall Saturday and Sunday for hours on end, EVERY fall Saturday and Sunday for hours on end... for people who like to spend their time doing that sort of thing anyway. Rolling Eyes
To you but not to most of the people living on this planet Wink

regards ...

      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 18:40
Some of us just noticed something rather strange !

A few players were registered very recently.

One of these players

- is totally unknow
- is rather well ranked
- has a very strange profile ( I let you look at it )
- has been online for only 4 days
- knows there is a tournament without having ever posted on it !


Who knows changedgirl ?

Changedgirl, can you tell us who you are ?
      
thekid
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 18:49
I know the answer. It is Zugbegleiterin. She hasn't played since the 27th of May. Changedgirl (guess she has seen the error of her cheating ways) started playing on the 28th.
      
SKMorefield
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 19:13
thekid wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 12:49

I know the answer. It is Zugbegleiterin. She hasn't played since the 27th of May. Changedgirl (guess she has seen the error of her cheating ways) started playing on the 28th.



We'll see if she is really sincere by what she does with the Zugbegleiterin account. Since she started a new account and cheated on the old one she should let it die, since it is unfairly a top 10.

Still waiting for an apology (after all, she IS a ChangedGirl, right?) but somehow I doubt that will happen. Oh well, at least ChangedGirl seems to be clean (so far).
      
SKMorefield
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 19:24
léachris wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 11:50


yes SKM, world is not limited to the US Wink


It's not????? Confused

Quote:

Don't say it too loudly!
Much more people than you could imagine appreciate it much more than " your football" Wink


That's just because they haven't been introduced to REAL football yet. If they had, they would abandon that silly game that has grown men running around kicking a ball around like they are children. Wink

      
thekid
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 19:34
I think Zug should have disclosed this beforehand. The person that is getting the royal ramrod is Brer Rabbit, he has a monster draw. Funny seeing how he has been completely upfront and clean about having 2 accounts from the beginning.
      
akrasia
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 19:39
thekid wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 09:49

I know the answer. It is Zugbegleiterin. She hasn't played since the 27th of May. Changedgirl (guess she has seen the error of her cheating ways) started playing on the 28th.


I can say with absolute certainty that it isn't Zugbegleiterin, because it is my wife. Up until now she's been playing with a guest account, but now she's got an official one.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 02 June 2005 19:44]

      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 19:43
rek{} écrit le Thu, 02 June 2005 19:39


I can say with absolute certainty that it isn't Zugbegleiterin, because it is my wife. Up until she's been playing with a guest account, but now she's got an official one.




Laughing Laughing Laughing

Welcome aboard Mrs rek !
      
thekid
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 21:24
I feel like it's election day. Can't wait to see those results start pouring in. Start posting them.
      
Franck
-= Crew =-
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Re:2nd Tournament! Thu, 02 June 2005 23:20
thekid écrit le Thu, 02 June 2005 21:24

I feel like it's election day. Can't wait to see those results start pouring in. Start posting them.

Ok I'll go first then...

Osamu and I played our first games...

We didn't make any screenshot and I am unable to expose them so I'll just drop the scores here...


1st game : I win (122-114)
OK, I took him off guard but he quickly recovered...
2nd game : Osamu wins (116-112)
3rd game : Osamu wins (110-103)
4th game : Osamu wins (107-92)

We plan to play the last game(s) <- Hope there will actually be an S Wink
on saturday at 9:00 AM UTC

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 02 June 2005 23:25]

      
thadd
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 01:53
thekid schrieb am Thu, 02 June 2005 11:49

I know the answer. It is Zugbegleiterin. She hasn't played since the 27th of May. Changedgirl (guess she has seen the error of her cheating ways) started playing on the 28th.


Oh, rek you shouldn't have said anything...
The panic and theories were just increasing exponantionally (sic?)


Laughing
      
plcrams
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 01:58
I think the Zugbegleiterin /Changedgirl posts above are a great example of why we have to be careful jumping to conclusions about who's cheating and who isn't. That's 2 people who have been wronged.

And as for American Football, watch a game of rugby (it's parent) and you'll see real football -

same people for defence and attack (or offense as you call it)
everyone on the field for 80 minutes with one 5 minute break at halftime
no timeouts - players have to think for themselves
little or no protective clothing
millions actually play it socially, not just watch
and it doesn't reduce your life expectancy by 20 years

      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 08:57
plcrams écrit le Fri, 03 June 2005 01:58

That's 2 people who have been wronged.



If only you'd know plcrams !!

Not only 2 players !

I'm the one who posted, thekid was the one who answered

But I'm not the one who noticed it ( I received a PM Wink )

and several players said it coulb be zug before I decided to post !!!


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
      
changedgirl
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 09:00
léachris wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 09:40

Some of us just noticed something rather strange !

A few players were registered very recently.

One of these players

- is totally unknow
- is rather well ranked
- has a very strange profile ( I let you look at it )
- has been online for only 4 days
- knows there is a tournament without having ever posted on it !


Who knows changedgirl ?

Changedgirl, can you tell us who you are ?


Ok, here's the scoop on me.

I am rek's wife, as he says. I have been previously playing on a guest account ("pocogirl"), since rek stopped letting me play on his account a long time ago.
Laughing

We got a new account which he started playing on and then he gave it to me to play on (hence, "pocogirl" became "changedgirl").

I won't be well ranked for long, I'm sure. Wink

Now, what's strange about my profile??? Wink

Nancy
      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 09:19
changedgirl wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 09:00

Now, what's strange about my profile??? Wink


Well done Nancy ( if I can call you Nancy)

Time zone and language changed Wink
      
redPEPPER
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 09:50
plcrams wrote:

I think the Zugbegleiterin /Changedgirl posts above are a great example of why we have to be careful jumping to conclusions about who's cheating and who isn't. That's 2 people who have been wronged.

Do you think we learned something? Confused

I'm thinking this whole open history is a bad idea to start with. Against the popular saying, the Spanish Inquisition was to be expected.

And again, I'll be pretty lonely with that opinion, eh? Wink

léachris wrote:

If only you'd know plcrams !!

Not only 2 players !

I'm the one who posted, thekid was the one who answered

But I'm not the one who noticed it ( I received a PM Wink )

and several players said it coulb be zug before I decided to post !!!


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


I think you're confusing "wronged" and "fooled". The two people who have been wronged are Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl.




While I'm at it:
International sports are made to be played.
US sports are made to be watched.

[Mis à jour le: Fri, 03 June 2005 09:55]

      
gwen
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 10:59
red pepper,

just to let you know that you're not alone with you opinion Smile

Maybe , you have to live in Belgium to be able to see things that way.

Gwen
      
plcrams
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 14:05
redPEPPER wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 17:50


léachris wrote:

If only you'd know plcrams !!



I think you're confusing "wronged" and "fooled". The two people who have been wronged are Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl.




No, I was talking about the two wronged parties - Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl. Who was fooled isn't the point.
      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 14:10
sorry, sorry, sorry

I promise, next time, I take my dictionary before posting Wink
      
redPEPPER
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 14:24
plcrams wrote:

redPEPPER wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 17:50


léachris wrote:

If only you'd know plcrams !!



I think you're confusing "wronged" and "fooled". The two people who have been wronged are Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl.




No, I was talking about the two wronged parties - Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl. Who was fooled isn't the point.


??

One of us must be misunderstanding the other because that's exactly what I said.

The conversation went like this:

You: "two people have been wronged"
Léa: "more people have been 'wronged': there's me and thekid but there are others too".
Me (to Léa): "these people have been fooled, not wronged. The two people who have been wronged are Zug and Changedgirl"
You (to me?): "No, the two people who have been wronged are Zug and Changedgirl"
Me: "??"

      
SKMorefield
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 14:32
redPEPPER wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 03:50


I'm thinking this whole open history is a bad idea to start with. Against the popular saying, the Spanish Inquisition was to be expected.

And again, I'll be pretty lonely with that opinion, eh? Wink




Yes, by all means let's cover up all the cheating and nastiness so nobody sees anything unpleasant. What we don't know (but suspect) can't hurt us right?

It's called accountability, redPEPPER, and in life in general people need more of it, not less.


Quote:


I think you're confusing "wronged" and "fooled". The two people who have been wronged are Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl.




Changedgirl was innocent, and I agree perhaps the accusations were a bit direct (but you have to admit the timing of a good player suddenly appearing named CHANGED-GIRL right after that flap with Zugbegleiterin was a bit too coincidental) but if nobody had brought this out we would have all suspected and not wanted to play her. She had a moment of suspicion, then vindication when clarified.

Zugbegleiterin, by her actions, has destroyed all the credibility she once had. The only thing she has been vindicated of here is not creating a 2nd account, which she would have had a right to do if she wanted.

Am I correct in that what you are saying is things would have been better if nobody had known she was a cheater, so she could continue her cheating ways unimpeded??

Especially with what we have seen so far, without the histories being opened the rankings have NO ingegrity. Nada. Zip. Zero. If someone is falsely accused they have a chance to present their case and vindicate themselves. Better still, their game history is open for all to see so the proof, either way, is there.


SKM
      
léachris -
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 16:06
redPEPPER écrit le Fri, 03 June 2005 14:24

plcrams wrote:

redPEPPER wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 17:50


léachris wrote:

If only you'd know plcrams !!



I think you're confusing "wronged" and "fooled". The two people who have been wronged are Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl.




No, I was talking about the two wronged parties - Zugbegleiterin and Changedgirl. Who was fooled isn't the point.


??

One of us must be misunderstanding the other because that's exactly what I said.

The conversation went like this:

You: "two people have been wronged"
Léa: "more people have been 'wronged': there's me and thekid but there are others too".
Me (to Léa): "these people have been fooled, not wronged. The two people who have been wronged are Zug and Changedgirl"
You (to me?): "No, the two people who have been wronged are Zug and Changedgirl"
Me: "??"



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Sorry again, I'm guilty, I don't want you to argue because of my mistake

I was wrong !!!
( and "to be wronged" is a false friend , ok ok Wink )

      
redPEPPER
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 16:48
SKMorefield wrote:


Yes, by all means let's cover up all the cheating and nastiness so nobody sees anything unpleasant. What we don't know (but suspect) can't hurt us right?

It's called accountability, redPEPPER, and in life in general people need more of it, not less.


Not at any cost. It's always a matter of benefit vs. cost, and opinions may vary. Since T2R is a game and that there's no prize at stake in the rankings, I'm thinking the drama around competition and cheating is disproportionate. When public histories come at the cost of more drama and false suspicion, I tend to think the cost is higher than the benefit. Your opinion may differ.


Quote:


Changedgirl was innocent, and I agree perhaps the accusations were a bit direct (but you have to admit the timing of a good player suddenly appearing named CHANGED-GIRL right after that flap with Zugbegleiterin was a bit too coincidental)

A bit too coincidental? It *was* a coincidence after all. So maybe it's people who were a bit too suspicious. Not only suspicious, they were actually convinced! But they apologized, so all is fine. Am I the only one to see a problem with that?

Quote:

but if nobody had brought this out we would have all suspected and not wanted to play her. She had a moment of suspicion, then vindication when clarified.

Imagine a scenario where nobody could clear her case like rek did.

This accusation is still pretty harmless ("only" a mistaken identity) but sometimes there are accusations of cheating based on strange playing patterns. There's not always a clean cut, with people playing their family or playing with multiple accounts, it can get pretty messy. I think open histories are actually a source of suspicion, more than an answer to suspicions.

Quote:

Am I correct in that what you are saying is things would have been better if nobody had known she was a cheater, so she could continue her cheating ways unimpeded??

She cheated in an online game. Nobody ever did that before! Hang her, I say! Wink

I'm not 100% familiar with the Zug case, I'm not even sure if she's a convicted cheater or if that's only the mob's official opinion, but this sole case is not a fair representation of the whole situation anyway. Let me explain my position with more general considerations.

The public histories will expose some cheaters. On the other hand it will increase suspicion, sometimes wrongly, in what I feel is an inappropriate manner. I don't even think it's the role of players to dig in people's log and see their playing patterns. And considering the strong ego of some players here, self-justice has got "big mess" written all over it. How about impartiality? If anyone needs to seek cheaters in the logs, it should be DOW's admin.

And there's the problem of privacy. What if I don't want my playing patterns exposed to the world like that? Especially retroactively. I can now adapt my playing pattern, knowing that I may be watched. But my past games, where I wasn't aware, are also public. That's wrong, privacy-wise. Also strategically-wise. Why should it all be exposed, so that the mob can dig out cheaters in place of the admin? This whole thing benefits a clique but it has a cost to everybody.

So all in all I think the cost is greater than the benefit. I don't expect you to agree with me but now you got a glimpse of the reasons behind my position.

      
changedgirl
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 17:44
Quote:


And there's the problem of privacy. What if I don't want my playing patterns exposed to the world like that? Especially retroactively. I can now adapt my playing pattern, knowing that I may be watched. But my past games, where I wasn't aware, are also public. That's wrong, privacy-wise. Also strategically-wise. Why should it all be exposed, so that the mob can dig out cheaters in place of the admin? This whole thing benefits a clique but it has a cost to everybody.

So all in all I think the cost is greater than the benefit. I don't expect you to agree with me but now you got a glimpse of the reasons behind my position.




As the wronged Wink party, I would say that I disagree with your position. I don't think you can expect privacy when you play a game online (unlike the privacy you can expect legally). And I think public scrutiny and accountability can only be a good thing, to make the game more fair and fun.

It would probably be tactful to take suspicions directly to admins (are they able to determine if different user ids come from the same ISPs?) instead of broadcasting them on the forums.

Nancy
(please do call me that, btw, changedgirl is bland and unwieldy)
      
SKMorefield
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Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 17:59
redPEPPER wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 10:48


This accusation is still pretty harmless ("only" a mistaken identity) but sometimes there are accusations of cheating based on strange playing patterns. There's not always a clean cut, with people playing their family or playing with multiple accounts, it can get pretty messy. I think open histories are actually a source of suspicion, more than an answer to suspicions.



From what I have seen so far, the cheaters have been blatantly obvious, such as, as in Zug's case, 40 straight wins against a guest account, not to mention her peculiar posts. Most people do not cheat, and the people who play family fairly will be apparent because of the frequency and win distribution.

Is it foolproof? No. Could someone still be dishonest on a game or two here and there? Sure. But they won't be able to shoot up the rankings dishonestly as they were able to before.

I'm not for false accusations. However, were it not for the 'witch-hunts' on this forum even before the game histories were open, Bum-Bum would still be atop the ranks and would probably have 2000+ points by now.

In fact, if DoW suddenly closed the histories, what would stop anyone from doing this? Remember, they only removed Bum-Bum and Achim because they were #1 and #2 and suspicion was raised on this forum. What about the other spots?

Quote:


The public histories will expose some cheaters. On the other hand it will increase suspicion, sometimes wrongly, in what I feel is an inappropriate manner. I don't even think it's the role of players to dig in people's log and see their playing patterns. And considering the strong ego of some players here, self-justice has got "big mess" written all over it. How about impartiality? If anyone needs to seek cheaters in the logs, it should be DOW's admin.



DoW has stated before that they don't have time to patrol the histories for cheaters. I believe this is one reason they opened the history.

Quote:


And there's the problem of privacy. What if I don't want my playing patterns exposed to the world like that? Especially retroactively. I can now adapt my playing pattern, knowing that I may be watched. But my past games, where I wasn't aware, are also public. That's wrong, privacy-wise. Also strategically-wise. Why should it all be exposed, so that the mob can dig out cheaters in place of the admin? This whole thing benefits a clique but it has a cost to everybody.

So all in all I think the cost is greater than the benefit. I don't expect you to agree with me but now you got a glimpse of the reasons behind my position.



I do not agree that this is a privacy issue. Nobody is required to give his/her real name, address, age, location, etc. There is only a nickname, a spot on the rankings, and information, true or false, that that individual chooses to give.

And why shouldn't I, as a fellow player, know who you or anyone else has played? My favorite college football team is the Tennessee Vols, and I bet I could tell you everyone they have played, won and lost to for the past several seasons.

Now there might be an argument for people who want to stay unranked and play unranked games, to keep those histories closed, but if you are going to take a spot on the rankings, the integrity of those rankings demand that your history be open.

IMO, there is very little cost and a wealth of benefit by opening the histories.



Best,
SKM
      
Peter de Zeeuw
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2012

Pages Perso
Messages: 495
Enregistré(e) en :
March 2005
First Round Result - D.I.S. vs. Razamanaz Fri, 03 June 2005 17:59
Match 1
Razamanaz defeated Peter de Zeeuw (124-68)

Match 2
Razamanaz defeated Peter de Zeeuw (124-89)

Match 3
Razamanaz defeated Peter de Zeeuw (117-99)

Match 4
Razamanaz defeated Peter de Zeeuw (126-91)

I guess that means I'm... out? Sad

(I'm a big boy, I'm not crying, I'm not sad... Crying or Very Sad )

I really need a vacation...

D.I.S.
      
akrasia
Senior Member

Messages: 202
Enregistré(e) en :
December 2004
Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 18:06
redPEPPER wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 07:48


The public histories will expose some cheaters. On the other hand it will increase suspicion, sometimes wrongly, in what I feel is an inappropriate manner. I don't even think it's the role of players to dig in people's log and see their playing patterns. And considering the strong ego of some players here, self-justice has got "big mess" written all over it. How about impartiality? If anyone needs to seek cheaters in the logs, it should be DOW's admin.



I think more important than exposing cheaters, it will deter cheaters. I doubt we'll ever see someone try to surge into the top ranks again by cheating like Bum-Bum and Achim2004 did. I agree with you that people have been a bit too quick to jump to conclusions, but that will settle down.

DoW has better things to do than scour the records for cheaters. Bum-Bum and Achim were exposed by the suspicions of players, and that was a good thing. The "mob" just needs to slow down a bit and be very certain before they start calling for blood.

I don't think public histories will increase suspicion at all. It was always there. Now we just have the means to test the suspicions.

      
Silvertrain
Junior Member

Messages: 16
Enregistré(e) en :
December 2004
Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 18:53
Here the results of first two games of Optimus against Silvertrain:

1) Optimus 120 - Silvertrain 77
2) Optimus 116 - Silvertrain 114

So it's 2 : 0 for Optimus.
Next games will follow on the weekend.

      
tex23bm
Junior Member

Messages: 8
Enregistré(e) en :
October 2003
Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 19:11
Game one:
Anu_: 85
Tex23bm: 101

Tex's Destinations:
Winnepeg-Little Rock
Denver-El Paso

Anu_'s Destinations:
Kansas City-Houston (failed)
Other Destination unknown (I'm thinking Montreal-Atlanta)

Game Summary:
Personally I think Anu_ outplayed me for the Majority of this game. There were one or two moves I made, that were not too bright. Anu Did an Awesome Job of making my journey as hard as possible, but as a result, she ended up making me take longer routes, and ending the game before she could connect. There was maybe one mistake or two though by Anu_ later in the game which allowed me to connect, and end the game before she could connect and or do any more damage. I will try to post some screenshots that I have, but being an idiot I forgot to get a screenshot of Anu_'s Destinations.

Bill
      
G7 womble
Senior Member
Vainqueur Nation Cup AdR 2009

Messages: 267
Enregistré(e) en :
December 2004
Re:2nd Tournament! Fri, 03 June 2005 19:47
TOURNAMENT:

redPEPPER and me just played one game tonight - due to the unability of my computer to run stable...

redPEPPER 123
womble 103

redPEPPER had destinations:
LA - NY and DALLAS - NY

womble had destinations:
LA - Atlanta and Salt Lake LA

redPEPPER beat me by playing straight forward and good.
I just messed up my game myself. redPEPPER had longest route. I didn't do any screenshots... simply forgot.

Next games are scheduled for Sunday 1 pm CET.

womble

      
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