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zwarbo
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F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules - Base Game Fri, 08 May 2009 00:13
I thought I would collect together in one place all the clarifications to rules that have been discussed here & on BGG, that have a clarification provided from either Eric H or Antoine from DoW.
I'll keep a look out for new entries and keep this post updated as much as I can.
Hope it helps.

=====

General

Enemy Losses
Q: Is there an order in which the tokens you lose from battles are redeployed at the end of the current players turn ? (in the case of multiple players having to redeploy tokens)
A: Go in clockwise (player) order, from the active player on, if need be

All active units destroyed
If all your active units are destroyed in one turn you may:
1) Score points only with the in-decline race.
or 2) Go into decline and score 0 for that turn.
You may not take a new combo this turn

Troop Redeployment
You must leave at least one race token in each region conquered at the end of your turn, except for the amazons. In this case you must take off four race tokens, abandoning regions you've just conquered if required.

You can't swap active with decline races or vice versa. They are still 2 distinct races.

Non-Conquest Unit Placement
Q: Do I have the ability the place tokens in my occupied territories without failing a reinforcement roll?
A: Yes absolutely.

Tiebreak
Q: Do Bivouacs count towards the tie breaker?
A: No, they don't count toward the tie-break (they are race tokens for defense purposes, not for all purposes; just like the +4 Amazons would not count toward the tie-break).

3P Board
On the south border, the right hand mountain is adjacent to the forest region.

New Active Race
Your new race does not have to come onto the board in a region adjacent to your declined race.

Entering the board
Q: Are you allowed to enter the board from more than one spot, provided you keep tokens in your hand?
A: No, unless you are flying.

=====

Races

Amazons
The Amazons ability text should read: "So you start your initial turn with 10 Amazon tokens (plus any additional ones that may be granted to you by the Special Power associated with the Amazons, depending on your combo)."

To clarify future turns, you pick up your Amazons from the board, add the 4 you set aside in the last turn, and then before the end of your turn, set 4 aside again.
______

Elves
The elves ability text reads:
"keep all your Elf tokens in hand for redeployment at the end of your turn"
But should read:
"keep all your Elf tokens in hand for redeployment at the end of the current player's turn"
As clarified by the Enemy Losses & Withdrawls section:
"Keep the other Race tokens in hand, and redeploy them
in any other Region(s) still occupied by his race (if any) as
the final action of the current player's turn."

Elves vs Sorcerer
When the sorcerers substitute an elf token:
The two tokens are switched, with the Elven token going back into the tray. This is the only way for Elves to lose tokens.
_____

Giants
Q: On the 4-player map, in the south-east corner there are two mountains that each border the same forest region. If a giant controls both regions, is it -2 tiles to attack that forest, or only -1?
A: It is only -1, even if the Giants hold several mountain regions.

Giants with Flying
Q: If I have Flying Giants, and I control 1 Mountain, then can I attack ANY region using the Giant's ability of -1 on attacks against regions adjacent to a mountian I contol?
A: No, this is different. Flying does NOT make all the regions adjacent to each other. The Giants' ability only works against Regions that are physically adjacent to the Mountains they occupy.

Giants with Underworld
Q: Are giants with underworld allowed to treat all underworld locations as "adjacent to mountain" if having at least one token on an underworld mountain space?
A: Yes, because Underworld makes all Cave regions adjacent to each other.
_____

Ghouls in-decline
Q: With non-spirit Ghouls in decline and Elves as the active race. What sequence for the turn is used if Elves are put into decline?
A: 1. Send Elves into decline (Removing all Ghouls from the board)
2. Score VPs for Elves
There is no attack phase for the in-decline Ghouls because there is only an attack phase in a turn if that turn is spent expanding, not going into decline with a race (your Elves, here).

Q: Can in-decline Ghouls re-deploy before the active race tokens commence the "Ready your Troops" phase?
A: Yes.
Q: Do the conquests for both in-decline Ghouls and the active race end when the reinforcement die is used for the in-decline Ghouls?
A: No, you play your in-decline Ghouls (including their last conquest with a reinforcement die roll, if any), then you play your active race (who may also have a reinforcement roll as part of their last conquest).

Q: What happens to race tokens returned to your hand after being attacked by the in-decline Ghouls?
A: The tokens are redeployed at the end of the current player's turn.

If in-decline Ghoul tokens have been wiped off the board, they may re-enter it on the players next turn by conquering one of its border regions.

Q: When in-decline Ghoul tokens are attacked; Do they die similarly to active races (just lose 1 token per region) or do they get whiped out?
A: Ghouls act like an active race when in decline, so would only lose 1 token per region lost.

Ghouls with Spirit
Q: Can in-decline Spirit Ghouls re-enter the board into new regions?
A: Yes, because they behave like an active race. This is true for Spirit Ghouls as well.

Ghouls with Seafaring
In-decline Seafaring Ghouls cannot continue to conquer new lakes and seas.

Ghouls with Fortified
In-decline fortified Ghouls cannot continue to place forts.
_____

Halflings
Holes-in-the-ground can only be placed in the first two regions you conquer, not on regions obtained during later conquest. So if you abandon these regions, the Holes-in-the-ground disappear for good.
They cannot be re-used if the Halflings are forced to re-enter the map.
_____

Sorcerer
Q: For a Non-flying Sorcerers' first turn: Are they allowed to use their power to convert an opponent's sole token bordering the edge?
A: No, Non-flying Sorcerers cannot use their special conquest to enter the board.

Q: Can Sorcerers use their Ability after placing all their units?
A: It depends what you mean. The Sorcerers cannot use their Ability after doing a final conquest for the turn using the Reinforcement die roll. But they can use their ability otherwise.

Q: Can a non-Seafaring Sorcerer use its power to take a single token on a sea or lake?
A: In order to use their token substitution power, the Sorcerers must still be able to conquer the region they target. Since only seafaring races can conquer Lakes & Seas, a (non-seafaring) sorcerer would not be able to conquer a Lake or Sea occupied by another (seafaring) token.

Q: What does "Once per turn and per opponent" mean?
A: It does means "once per opponent per turn", hence, you can use the power twice in a turn against 2 different opponents.

The Sorcerer's power can not be used on the Lost Tribe tokens.

Sorcerers with Flying
Q: For a flying Sorcerers' first turn: Are they allowed to use their power to convert an opponent's sole token bordering the edge?
A: Yes, flying Sorcerers can use their special conquest to enter the board.

Q: Can the Flying Sorcerers use their power in any region with a single opposing unit (no encampment, no sea or lake)? Or, does it still need to be an adjacent region?
A: Flying Sorcerers can use their power in any region except seas, lakes, those with encampments, Heroes, a Dragon, holes in the ground, contains a lost-tribe race token or an oponent's in decline race token.

Sorcerer vs Diplomat
The Sorcerer's substition power is an attack, so you couldn't use it against a Diplomat who picked you as his friend.

Sorcerer vs Seafaring
The Sorcerer can swap out a Seafaring token, but not in a water region. Converting a token is a conquest, and non-seafaring Sorcerers, like anyone else, cannot conquer water regions.
_____

Tritons with Seafaring
Q: Do Seafaring Tritans receive a discount towards conquering the water Regions?
A: No, the water Regions are not adjacent to water, and they receive no discount. The Tritons only get an attack discount on coastal regions, not the water regions themselves.

=====

Special Powers

Berzerk
You may roll the die *once* per attack. First, you roll the die.
Then, you choose an adjacent territory. Then, you deploy your tokens.

About the final roll, there is a very important sentence in the rulebook, in the "Berserk" section:
"If you do not have enough tokens left, this is your final conquest attempt for the turn."
This sentence means that there is no "end-turn" die.
For each conquest, you roll the die and select your region: if you do not have enough tokens left, then your turn is over. You are not allowed to re-roll the die.

Bivouacking
English rules should read: ...thereby also protecting a single Race token with an Encampment from the Sorcerer's Racial Power.

More specifically, a single race token with an encampment in the same region is protected from the Sorcerer using its racial power, because the encampment counts as a second race token in the region in this case.
The region would remain vulnerable to any race (including Sorcerers) with the Dragon Master power, however.

Camps protect a single unit from the sorcerer's power.
You can't leave an encampment alone, with no race token.

Q: What exactly does "encampments are never lost during an attack" mean? That the one with the bivouacking skill is able to take it back in their hand right away? To immediately redeploy? Or to do so on their next turn?
A: Since they count 'as race tokens', if a region with the encampment tokens is captured, they're pulled back to the player's hand and redeployed during the cleanup phase of the attacker's turn.

Commando
English rules should read: Each conquer requires 1 less Race token than normal. A minimum of 1 token is still required.
Therefore, when your active tokens are not on the board, for the first conquest, you do get the Commando bonus.

Diplomat
Q: Is a race with the Diplomat power allowed to nominate a player, who has just declined or who has not yet had a turn (and therefore has no active race) as an ally?
A: Yes indeed, the only restriction in the choice of an ally is that you cannot choose a player if you just attacked his active race.

Diplomat prevents from attacks of any kind (Dragon, Sorcerer, etc.) A Diplomat Race is immune to her ally's conquests & racial & special powers.

Dragon
Q: Can the dragon fly, or just attack adjacent squares?
A: A Dragon does not give the race flying, nor does it fly itself. Also the dragon does not do the attacking, it just enables a single race token to take over a region. The dragon then occupies the region with that single race token until the next turn.
Hence the picture of a walking dragon.

Q: Can Dragon Master be used to enter the board?
A: The English rules are correct as stated. You may use your Dragon's power to enter the board.

Flying
Q: Can a Flying race conquer a lake?
A: No. The English rules should read: ".. Seas and Lakes."

The "Flying" ability allows you to ignore the adjacency rule for your conquests.

If you have the Flying special power, you may use it to enter the board through a non border territory.

Fortified
Clarification of "leave" vs "abandon"
In fact, leave refers to the turn where you are entering in decline.
You should understand the following:"The Fortress also augments your Region's defense by 1 (just as if you had an additional Race token stationed there), even if you are entering or are in decline.

In-decline races cannot continue to place fortifications.

Q: Once a fortress is placed, can it be moved like an encampment? Or is it stuck there until the region is abandoned or conquered?
A: A fortress cannot be moved.

Q: When a race with fortifications goes into decline, the fortress remains behind. If that tile is then conquered by another player, does the fortress stay on the board?
A: Nope. The fortress must be removed when the region is abandoned or conquered by an opponent.

Heroic
Q: Do Heroic Heroes need to be moved every turn?
A: There is no need to move them from one turn to the next.

Seafaring
Since only seafaring races can conquer Lakes & Seas, a (non-seafaring) race would not be able to conquer a Lake or Sea occupied by another (seafaring) token.

Q: Can a Seafaring race do a first conquest on a border sea region?
A: Yes.

[Updated on: Wed, 09 May 2012 12:00]

      
Magnot
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Re:What we know so far - Clarification of Rules Fri, 08 May 2009 01:53
Gah! I just copied your Rules Clarifications over to this forum a few hours ago Razz It's up above, among the stickies! Surprised

Your version is better because it retains all of the bold/underlined/italic stuff, which doesn't copy with cut and paste, for some reason Razz

To moderators: replace my sticky with this thread!

[Updated on: Fri, 08 May 2009 01:55]

      
zwarbo
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Re:What we know so far - Clarification of Rules Fri, 08 May 2009 05:19
Thanks moderators for sorting things out.

[Updated on: Sat, 23 May 2009 01:06]

      
MrLefty
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 23 May 2009 01:35
zwarbo wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 08:13

I thought I
Sorcerer
Q: For a Non-flying Sorcerers' first turn: Are they allowed to use their power to convert an opponent's sole token bordering the edge?
A: No, Non-flying Sorcerers cannot use their special conquest to enter the board.

Sorcerers with Flying
Q: For a flying Sorcerers' first turn: Are they allowed to use their power to convert an opponent's sole token bordering the edge?
A: Yes, flying Sorcerers can use their special conquest to enter the board.



With respect, why? I can't think of a single reason for this that'll make sense to new players of the game.

The way we've been teaching people to think of the Sorcerers' special move is that it's a conquest you can do once per person per turn, provided they've only got one race token in a space. (Makes sense - a fairly straightforward power). That you can only attack adjacent squares unless your race has a special power changing that or unless your active race has no spaces on the board, in which case, you come in from the border. (Makes sense - keeps a race together but gives it a starting point.) And that flying simply makes every space adjacent. (Hence the illustrations).

So why not let ordinary sorcerers use their power when they enter the board?
      
sctooker
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 23 May 2009 17:59
MrLefty wrote on Fri, 22 May 2009 16:35

zwarbo wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 08:13

I thought I
Sorcerer
Q: For a Non-flying Sorcerers' first turn: Are they allowed to use their power to convert an opponent's sole token bordering the edge?
A: No, Non-flying Sorcerers cannot use their special conquest to enter the board.

Sorcerers with Flying
Q: For a flying Sorcerers' first turn: Are they allowed to use their power to convert an opponent's sole token bordering the edge?
A: Yes, flying Sorcerers can use their special conquest to enter the board.



With respect, why? I can't think of a single reason for this that'll make sense to new players of the game.

The way we've been teaching people to think of the Sorcerers' special move is that it's a conquest you can do once per person per turn, provided they've only got one race token in a space. (Makes sense - a fairly straightforward power). That you can only attack adjacent squares unless your race has a special power changing that or unless your active race has no spaces on the board, in which case, you come in from the border. (Makes sense - keeps a race together but gives it a starting point.) And that flying simply makes every space adjacent. (Hence the illustrations).

So why not let ordinary sorcerers use their power when they enter the board?


The key is in the definition of Flying, which allows you to ignore adjacency requirements for attacking. If you have Flying you don't need to be adjacent to the space you are using your power on, so you could come on the board by swapping out a token.

This differs from a situation like Flying Giants attacking a non-adjacent area from a mountain. In this case the adjacency isn't a requirement for attacking, but instead is a condition for being able to attack with one less token. Therefore, Flying Giants don't get to attack with one less token, since the space isn't adjacent to them.

It's unfortunate that these subtleties are not called out more in the rules. An "examples of play" section using interesting race/power combos would have clarified a lot of the questions in the FAQ.

It also doesn't help that the summary sheet (in some cases) provides incomplete power descriptions that mislead players if they haven't read the rules first. Check out the Flying description on the summary sheet. While it doesn't contradict the rules when read with them, read alone you can easily come to the conclusion all spaces are adjacent for Flying races, which is incorrect.

Scott
      
MrLefty
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sun, 24 May 2009 00:56
sctooker wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 01:59


The key is in the definition of Flying, which allows you to ignore adjacency requirements for attacking. If you have Flying you don't need to be adjacent to the space you are using your power on, so you could come on the board by swapping out a token.



I think they're making it unnecessarily complicated. To make it work thematically they should define "adjacent" so that it includes
- any territory your race can attack on the board by virtue of a special power (flying, underground etc)
- any territory on the border of the board, if you have no active race on the board already.

I don't see why the border attack at the start of the active race's time on the board should be considered any different to any normal attack - it's not "special", it's just the way that everyone starts. Thematically, the border spaces are "adjacent" to the outside, where the new race comes from.

Commandos get to use their special attack when they enter; why not sorcerers? I don't think that would unbalance anything.
      
BamH1
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 25 May 2009 07:46
I will be allowing the power to be used to enter the board. Too many exceptions to rules and it starts feeling like a Fantasy Flight Game.
Especially considering the few times it would ever come up.

However, if it gets abused and sorcerers abandon regions and re-enter just to target tokens then i may point out the official rules. Even then i don't think it would be a big deal actually and may still let it pass to keep the simplicity.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 May 2009 07:47]

      
GreatDane
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 25 May 2009 13:10
BamH1 wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 07:46

I will be allowing the power to be used to enter the board. Too many exceptions to rules and it starts feeling like a Fantasy Flight Game.
Especially considering the few times it would ever come up.

However, if it gets abused and sorcerers abandon regions and re-enter just to target tokens then i may point out the official rules. Even then i don't think it would be a big deal actually and may still let it pass to keep the simplicity.


I agree - except that I don't find it 'abusive' to abandon the Small World en re-enter somewhere else. The Sorcerer can still only 'convert' one region from each opponent per turn.
      
BamH1
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 25 May 2009 13:48
GreatDane wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 21:10

BamH1 wrote on Mon, 25 May 2009 07:46

I will be allowing the power to be used to enter the board. Too many exceptions to rules and it starts feeling like a Fantasy Flight Game.
Especially considering the few times it would ever come up.

However, if it gets abused and sorcerers abandon regions and re-enter just to target tokens then i may point out the official rules. Even then i don't think it would be a big deal actually and may still let it pass to keep the simplicity.


except that I don't find it 'abusive' to abandon the Small World en re-enter somewhere else. The Sorcerer can still only 'convert' one region from each opponent per turn.


Yeah, i sort of changed my tune mid post actually as i considered it. Not actually a big deal, for the reason you cited.
      
Sseluric
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 06 June 2009 01:35
zwarbo wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 08:13

I thought I
Sorcerer

The key is in the definition of Flying, which allows you to ignore adjacency requirements for attacking. If you have Flying you don't need to be adjacent to the space you are using your power on, so you could come on the board by swapping out a token.

This differs from a situation like Flying Giants attacking a non-adjacent area from a mountain. In this case the adjacency isn't a requirement for attacking, but instead is a condition for being able to attack with one less token. Therefore, Flying Giants don't get to attack with one less token, since the space isn't adjacent to them.

It's unfortunate that these subtleties are not called out more in the rules. An "examples of play" section using interesting race/power combos would have clarified a lot of the questions in the FAQ.

It also doesn't help that the summary sheet (in some cases) provides incomplete power descriptions that mislead players if they haven't read the rules first. Check out the Flying description on the summary sheet. While it doesn't contradict the rules when read with them, read alone you can easily come to the conclusion all spaces are adjacent for Flying races, which is incorrect.

Scott



This is not accurate. Sorcerers cannot use their special with flying for the same reason that giants cannot use their special. The sorcerer ability says: "...and that region must be adjacent to one of your Sorcerers'." If the space you are flying to is not adjacent to a sorcerer token it cannot be the target of their special, in exactly the same manner as if the space flown to is not adjacent to a mountain than giants cannot use their special.

This also means that with or without flying a sorcerer cannot take their first space with their special, again because no sorcerer is adjacent to that space.

Days of Wonder does use flying sorcerers as an example in their tutorial where they break this rule in their example, by saying flying sorcerers work. Either the sorcerers ability or the flying special would have to be edited/fixed to allow flying sorcerers to work.

[Updated on: Sat, 06 June 2009 01:38]

      
Sseluric
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 06 June 2009 01:46
zwarbo wrote on Thu, 07 May 2009 18:13


Q: What does "Once per turn and per opponent" mean?
A: It does means "once per opponent per turn", hence, you can use the power twice in a turn against 2 different opponents.



"Once per turn and per opponent" is not the same as "Once per opponent per turn".

"Once per turn and per opponent" specifies that you could only use the power once per turn AND that once an opponent has been targeted with the power they could never be targeted again. That is the whole reason the "and" is inserted into the phrase. Otherwise the rule would state "Once per turn per opponent" and leave out the "and".

If the "and " is just a misprint in the rules then I apologize for wasting your time with the above statements....
      
eric
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 06 June 2009 03:29
The rules should indeed read "Once per opponent per turn".
      
Sseluric
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 06 June 2009 05:45
Is it possible to get that corrected in the rule book pdf on this site? It'd be pretty cool to have an official up-to-date rule book on the site that included any rule corrections.

Thank you very much for the rule clarification!

[Updated on: Sat, 06 June 2009 19:16]

      
eric
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Sat, 06 June 2009 17:43
Yes, we will try to release an updated PDF on our web site shortly.
      
GreatDane
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 08 June 2009 08:48
In the meantime ZWARBO is doing a darn good job at maintaning a FAQ with all official rulings at the top of this very thread!
      
NickyD
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 08 June 2009 23:07
Can you put these two in your FAQ?

1)Dragon, Can it fly, or just attack Adjacent squares.

2)Ghouls. When being attacked in decline. Do they die similarly to active races (just lose 1 token per region) or do they get whiped out?)
      
zwarbo
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 08 June 2009 23:54
NickyD wrote on Tue, 09 June 2009 09:07

Can you put these two in your FAQ?

1)Dragon, Can it fly, or just attack Adjacent squares.

2)Ghouls. When being attacked in decline. Do they die similarly to active races (just lose 1 token per region) or do they get whiped out?)


If Eric or Antoine clarify your questions, I can add them in.

In the meantime, IMO the answers are:

1. A Dragon does not give the race flying, nor does it fly itself. Also the dragon does not do the attacking, it just enables a single race token to take over a region. The dragon then occupies the region with that single race token until the next turn.

2. Yes, Ghouls act like an active race when in decline, so would only lose 1 token per region lost.
      
NickyD
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Tue, 09 June 2009 18:28
Thanks a bunch for getting back to me. One very last one I'd be very appreciative if you could clarify.

1) Before Conquest, can you abandon regions before conquest to have more tokens to attack with? (We weren't entirely sure if you have to abandon regions before collecting victory points if you wanna use them for conquest the next turn, or if you can just abandon before your turn begins?)
      
zwarbo
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Wed, 10 June 2009 02:44
NickyD wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 04:28


1) Before Conquest, can you abandon regions before conquest to have more tokens to attack with? (We weren't entirely sure if you have to abandon regions before collecting victory points if you wanna use them for conquest the next turn, or if you can just abandon before your turn begins?)


In the "Ready your Troops" phase as part of your conquest turn, you can completely remove all tokens from a region your active race occupies. This is purely a strategy decision. These tokens can then be used for your conquests.

After you have finished your conquest either by the final conquest or just deciding to stop, any tokens in hand are placed on any region you currently occupy. You must leave at least one token in each region in this phase called "Troop re-deployment".

Amazons are the one exception, because 4 tokens must be removed from the board and set aside, even if this means removing all tokens from 1 region. This happens at the end of "Troop re-deployment", before scoring.
      
csdmmnt
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Wed, 10 June 2009 18:49
Page 11, Flying:

"You may conquer any Region of the map except Seas. These Regions do not need to be adjacent or contiguous to ones you already occupy."

So, regions do NOT become adjacent just because you can fly. In fact it pretty much says they remain NON-adjacent. Thus special powers that require the specific "adjacent" do not get to be used when flying to NON-adjacent regions.
      
Antoine
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Thu, 11 June 2009 14:27
zwarbo écrit le Mon, 08 June 2009 23:54

NickyD wrote on Tue, 09 June 2009 09:07

Can you put these two in your FAQ?

1)Dragon, Can it fly, or just attack Adjacent squares.

2)Ghouls. When being attacked in decline. Do they die similarly to active races (just lose 1 token per region) or do they get whiped out?)


If Eric or Antoine clarify your questions, I can add them in.

In the meantime, IMO the answers are:

1. A Dragon does not give the race flying, nor does it fly itself. Also the dragon does not do the attacking, it just enables a single race token to take over a region. The dragon then occupies the region with that single race token until the next turn.


Correct - btw the illustration shows a walking dragon, not a flying one Smug

Quote:

2. Yes, Ghouls act like an active race when in decline, so would only lose 1 token per region lost.


Yes, that's right.
      
Antoine
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Thu, 11 June 2009 14:49
csdmmnt écrit le Wed, 10 June 2009 18:49

Page 11, Flying:

"You may conquer any Region of the map except Seas. These Regions do not need to be adjacent or contiguous to ones you already occupy."

So, regions do NOT become adjacent just because you can fly. In fact it pretty much says they remain NON-adjacent. Thus special powers that require the specific "adjacent" do not get to be used when flying to NON-adjacent regions.


Yes they can be used. You are obviously referring to the Sorcerers' Ability.

Let's clarify that point once and for all:

- The basic rule says that when deploying your Race tokens, you may only conquer adjacent Regions.

- The conversion is a conquest, as explained in the rules: your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray.

- The "Flying" ability allows you to ignore the adjacency rule for your conquests.

-> As a result, Flying Sorcerers may conquer any region of the map, either by attacking it with tokens or by substituting a single token by a Sorcerers' token.

What about Flying Giants? Do they get their -1 discount to conquer any Region of the map?

No, this is different. As said before, Flying does NOT make all the regions adjacent to each other. The Giants' ability only works against Regions that are physically adjacent to the Mountains they occupy.

What about Underworld Giants then? Do they get their -1 discount when attacking from a Cave on a Mountain?

Yes, because Underworld makes all Cave regions adjacent to each other!

Hope it helps! If not, feel free to ask... Smug
      
csdmmnt
Junior Member

Posts: 17
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Thu, 11 June 2009 19:31
Antoine wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 05:27

zwarbo écrit le Mon, 08 June 2009 23:54

NickyD wrote on Tue, 09 June 2009 09:07

Can you put these two in your FAQ?

1)Dragon, Can it fly, or just attack Adjacent squares.

2)Ghouls. When being attacked in decline. Do they die similarly to active races (just lose 1 token per region) or do they get whiped out?)


If Eric or Antoine clarify your questions, I can add them in.

In the meantime, IMO the answers are:

1. A Dragon does not give the race flying, nor does it fly itself. Also the dragon does not do the attacking, it just enables a single race token to take over a region. The dragon then occupies the region with that single race token until the next turn.


Correct - btw the illustration shows a walking dragon, not a flying one Smug

Quote:

2. Yes, Ghouls act like an active race when in decline, so would only lose 1 token per region lost.


Yes, that's right.


Quote:

Sorcerers
Once per turn and per opponent, your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray. If there are no more tokens in the storage tray, then you cannot conquer a new Region in this way.
The token your Sorcerers replaces must be the only race token in its Region (A single Troll token with its Troll's Lair is considered alone for this purpose; likewise for a Race token in a Fortress or on a Mountain, these markers provide no protection to a lone Race token) and that Region must be adjacent to one of your Sorcerers'. Place the substituted opponent's Race token back into the storage tray.


Then the last bit of the last qualifying sentence really isn't necessary if conquer rules supersede it. Conquests (with the exception of entering the map for the initial conquest) already need to be "adjacent" so why would that last bit be put into the definition of sorcerer?

There are a few fairly, at least I thought, solid items in the rules; Active, Decline, and Adjacent. In this discussion Adjacent seems to be kind of ambiguous instead.

Edit: I should also throw in that it is clear that it is accepted that Flying does not make regions Adjacent. This fact combined with the definition of Sorcerers' ability lends itself to the issue ... for me any way ...

[Updated on: Thu, 11 June 2009 19:33]

      
NickyD
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 15 June 2009 20:40
eric wrote on Sat, 06 June 2009 11:43

Yes, we will try to release an updated PDF on our web site shortly.


I'm looking forward to an official PDF Wink

[Updated on: Mon, 15 June 2009 20:43]

      
NickyD
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 15 June 2009 20:59
I don't know why, but I feel this next one is obvious but should be mentioned.

Even though the Ghouls act like an active race when in decline, I'm assuming they can't be transformed into a sorcerer (by the sorcerer).
      
zwarbo
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 15 June 2009 23:59
NickyD wrote on Tue, 16 June 2009 06:59

I don't know why, but I feel this next one is obvious but should be mentioned.

Even though the Ghouls act like an active race when in decline, I'm assuming they can't be transformed into a sorcerer (by the sorcerer).


You are correct in your assumption. The Sorcerer's power does not work on in-decline race tokens.
      
Sseluric
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Tue, 16 June 2009 20:48
Antoine wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:49

- The conversion is a conquest, as explained in the rules: your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray.


The Giants special is also a conquest, as explained in the rules: your Giants may conquer any Region at a cost of 1 less Giant token.

This is why there is so much debate on this topic. In the rules both abilities function the same way. Both are a conquest and both state that they require adjacency. However, you state that one works with flying and the other doesn't. Since both say they are a conquest, and both state that they require adjacency, it is impossible to reasonably say that one works with flying while the other does not.

Now, I realize that it is the intention of the game makers to have flying sorcerers work and flying Giants not work. To accomplish this the abilities need to be reworded in the rules. (ie the giants ability is no longer called a conquest)

I still see no way to allow flying sorcerers to use their special on their initial conquest and not allow regular sorcerers to do the same. If the sorcerers adjacency requirement just means that the space has to be one they could normally conquer than their first space is one they could normally conquer, and non-flying sorcerers could also use their special. If the adjacency requirement means that the sorcerers have to actually have a space and it has to be adjacent to the space the special ability is used in then flying sorcerers can't use their special on the first turn because there are no sorcerer spaces.

In other words the sorcerers' special ability needs to be reworded for the official interpretation to make sense. Stating that flying "ignores the adjacency rules" means that flying giants also get to ignore all adjacency rules and use their special. Stating that "flying does not make all spaces adjacent" means that as written the sorcerer power requires an adjacent space and would not work with flying. Besides if you get to ignore adjacency rules it doesn't matter what spaces are adjacent you get to ignore those rules.

So until the new pdf:

1. Flying sorcerers work because DoW says so

2. Flying Giants do not work because DoW says so

Can't argue those rules. Very Happy

[Updated on: Tue, 16 June 2009 20:49]

      
*player38092
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Wed, 17 June 2009 20:40
The adjacency, with Flying races, is about the race.
The adjacency, with Mountains, is about the region.
Mountains don't fly.
(Flying) Sorcerers do.
I would say that there is where lays the difference between the two notions of 'adjacency'.
      
Sseluric
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 22 June 2009 20:48
Robin wrote on Wed, 17 June 2009 14:40

The adjacency, with Flying races, is about the race.
The adjacency, with Mountains, is about the region.
Mountains don't fly.
(Flying) Sorcerers do.


The rules for both specify that they be adjacent to a space on the board. One being a sorcerer owned space, the other being a giant owned mountain space. Neither ability says anything about being adjacent to a race token.

So again, the sorcerer rule needs to be fixed so that it can actually work with flying as stated in my above post.

      
KarmanMonkey
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Tue, 23 June 2009 19:42
Sseluric wrote on Mon, 22 June 2009 14:48

Robin wrote on Wed, 17 June 2009 14:40

The adjacency, with Flying races, is about the race.
The adjacency, with Mountains, is about the region.
Mountains don't fly.
(Flying) Sorcerers do.


The rules for both specify that they be adjacent to a space on the board. One being a sorcerer owned space, the other being a giant owned mountain space. Neither ability says anything about being adjacent to a race token.

So again, the sorcerer rule needs to be fixed so that it can actually work with flying as stated in my above post.




The giant's ability says they get a bonus when conquering regions which are adjacent to a mountain region they occupy. The fact that the flying giants don't have to be adjacent to attack somewhere doesn't suddenly make every space adjacent to that mountain.
      
csdmmnt
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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Wed, 24 June 2009 22:22
Sseluric wrote on Tue, 16 June 2009 11:48

Antoine wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:49

- The conversion is a conquest, as explained in the rules: your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray.


The Giants special is also a conquest, as explained in the rules: your Giants may conquer any Region at a cost of 1 less Giant token.

This is why there is so much debate on this topic. In the rules both abilities function the same way. Both are a conquest and both state that they require adjacency. However, you state that one works with flying and the other doesn't. Since both say they are a conquest, and both state that they require adjacency, it is impossible to reasonably say that one works with flying while the other does not.

Now, I realize that it is the intention of the game makers to have flying sorcerers work and flying Giants not work. To accomplish this the abilities need to be reworded in the rules. (ie the giants ability is no longer called a conquest)

I still see no way to allow flying sorcerers to use their special on their initial conquest and not allow regular sorcerers to do the same. If the sorcerers adjacency requirement just means that the space has to be one they could normally conquer than their first space is one they could normally conquer, and non-flying sorcerers could also use their special. If the adjacency requirement means that the sorcerers have to actually have a space and it has to be adjacent to the space the special ability is used in then flying sorcerers can't use their special on the first turn because there are no sorcerer spaces.

In other words the sorcerers' special ability needs to be reworded for the official interpretation to make sense. Stating that flying "ignores the adjacency rules" means that flying giants also get to ignore all adjacency rules and use their special. Stating that "flying does not make all spaces adjacent" means that as written the sorcerer power requires an adjacent space and would not work with flying. Besides if you get to ignore adjacency rules it doesn't matter what spaces are adjacent you get to ignore those rules.

So until the new pdf:

1. Flying sorcerers work because DoW says so

2. Flying Giants do not work because DoW says so

Can't argue those rules. Very Happy


This is exactly right.

Adjacent means next too. Sorcerer definition states conquest if adjacent space has a sorcerer token. Flying doesn't make things adjacent.

When a general rule is placed into a statement and then there are further "qualifiers" that are added to the overall statement the entirety of the statement becomes the rule. The general rule used in the first statement isn't the only rule because it is not the only part of the statement that is the rule.

Hows that for convoluted!

For instance:

Quote:

Sorcerers
Once per turn and per opponent, your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray. If there are no more tokens in the storage tray, then you cannot conquer a new Region in this way.


Is how DoW is ruling it imho but it is written with:

Quote:

The token your Sorcerers replaces must be the only race token in its Region (A single Troll token with its Troll's Lair is considered alone for this purpose; likewise for a Race token in a Fortress or on a Mountain, these markers provide no protection to a lone Race token) and that Region must be adjacent to one of your Sorcerers'. Place the substituted opponent's Race token back into the storage tray.


Which further qualifies the ability of a sorcerer and thus binds the sorcerers' ability to having to be adjacent to another region with a sorcerer token in it.

Flying does not make regions adjacent. That seems to be a common understanding with no one arguing it. Yet for some reason its application is not being consistent nor all of the wording of an ability being applied.

Thus there is an issue!

[Updated on: Wed, 24 June 2009 22:26]

      
player564054
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Registered:
August 2009
Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Thu, 20 August 2009 18:49
csdmmnt wrote on Wed, 24 June 2009 16:22

Sseluric wrote on Tue, 16 June 2009 11:48

Antoine wrote on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:49

- The conversion is a conquest, as explained in the rules: your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray.


The Giants special is also a conquest, as explained in the rules: your Giants may conquer any Region at a cost of 1 less Giant token.

This is why there is so much debate on this topic. In the rules both abilities function the same way. Both are a conquest and both state that they require adjacency. However, you state that one works with flying and the other doesn't. Since both say they are a conquest, and both state that they require adjacency, it is impossible to reasonably say that one works with flying while the other does not.

Now, I realize that it is the intention of the game makers to have flying sorcerers work and flying Giants not work. To accomplish this the abilities need to be reworded in the rules. (ie the giants ability is no longer called a conquest)

I still see no way to allow flying sorcerers to use their special on their initial conquest and not allow regular sorcerers to do the same. If the sorcerers adjacency requirement just means that the space has to be one they could normally conquer than their first space is one they could normally conquer, and non-flying sorcerers could also use their special. If the adjacency requirement means that the sorcerers have to actually have a space and it has to be adjacent to the space the special ability is used in then flying sorcerers can't use their special on the first turn because there are no sorcerer spaces.

In other words the sorcerers' special ability needs to be reworded for the official interpretation to make sense. Stating that flying "ignores the adjacency rules" means that flying giants also get to ignore all adjacency rules and use their special. Stating that "flying does not make all spaces adjacent" means that as written the sorcerer power requires an adjacent space and would not work with flying. Besides if you get to ignore adjacency rules it doesn't matter what spaces are adjacent you get to ignore those rules.

So until the new pdf:

1. Flying sorcerers work because DoW says so

2. Flying Giants do not work because DoW says so

Can't argue those rules. Very Happy


This is exactly right.

Adjacent means next too. Sorcerer definition states conquest if adjacent space has a sorcerer token. Flying doesn't make things adjacent.

When a general rule is placed into a statement and then there are further "qualifiers" that are added to the overall statement the entirety of the statement becomes the rule. The general rule used in the first statement isn't the only rule because it is not the only part of the statement that is the rule.

Hows that for convoluted!

For instance:

Quote:

Sorcerers
Once per turn and per opponent, your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray. If there are no more tokens in the storage tray, then you cannot conquer a new Region in this way.


Is how DoW is ruling it imho but it is written with:

Quote:

The token your Sorcerers replaces must be the only race token in its Region (A single Troll token with its Troll's Lair is considered alone for this purpose; likewise for a Race token in a Fortress or on a Mountain, these markers provide no protection to a lone Race token) and that Region must be adjacent to one of your Sorcerers'. Place the substituted opponent's Race token back into the storage tray.


Which further qualifies the ability of a sorcerer and thus binds the sorcerers' ability to having to be adjacent to another region with a sorcerer token in it.

Flying does not make regions adjacent. That seems to be a common understanding with no one arguing it. Yet for some reason its application is not being consistent nor all of the wording of an ability being applied.

Thus there is an issue!


I would argue that flying makes all regions adjacent FOR THE RACE (but not for specific regions). In other words, a RACE can attack any region as though it owns a space adjacent to the region being attacked.
The Sorcerer power is something tied only to their RACE. So, for flying Sorcerers, any region is considered adjacent to that RACE and subject to the power.
Flying Giants are a different story. For their power to work, the REGION (and not the race) needs to be adjacent to mountains. So, even though all regions are considered adjacent for the RACE of flying Giants, the regions are NOT considered adjacent to the REGION occupied by the flying giants. So, for a Flying Giant in a mountain, any space is adjacent to their RACE (i.e., any space can be attacked by their race), but that does not change the geography of the board--it does not mean that every region on the board is magically adjacent to the REGION those giants actually occupy.

In short, flying makes:
RACE adjacent to every REGION
**NOT**
REGION adjacent to every REGION

---OR---
Think about it this way: flying allows a race to attack a region as though the attacking race owns an adjacent region. Flying does not provide for attacking FROM a specific region, only for attacking TO a specific region.

      
Erathia
Junior Member

Posts: 5
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October 2009
Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 05 October 2009 07:00
Two questions came up at my game last night, and I was wondering what the official answers were to them.

1) On the 4-player map, in the south-east corner there are two mountains that each border the same forest region. If giant control both regions, is it -2 tiles to attack that forest, or only -1?

2) When a race with fortifications goes into decline, the fortress remains behind. If that tile is then conquered by another player, does the fortress stay on the board? If it does, will it continue to generate the bonus victory coin for the new race?
      
Antoine
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Major

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Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 05 October 2009 10:44
Hi Erathia. Welcome to our forums!

Re. your questions:

Erathia wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 07:00

1) On the 4-player map, in the south-east corner there are two mountains that each border the same forest region. If giant control both regions, is it -2 tiles to attack that forest, or only -1?


It is only -1, even if the Giants hold several mountain regions.

Erathia wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 07:00

2) When a race with fortifications goes into decline, the fortress remains behind. If that tile is then conquered by another player, does the fortress stay on the board?


Nope. The fortress must be removed when the region is abandoned or conquered by an opponent.

Erathia wrote on Mon, 05 October 2009 07:00

2)If it does, will it continue to generate the bonus victory coin for the new race?


No. Anyway, a Fortress does not give any extra VP when in decline (the defensive bonus remains however).

Have fun!

      
Ancor
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Cadet

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November 2009
Dragon Master Tue, 10 November 2009 01:06
I have question about Dragon Master. It can be moved on next turn. But it can be moved only to adjacent regions or not?
And when it can be (or has to be) played first?
      
BamH1
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Re:Dragon Master Wed, 11 November 2009 03:54
Ancor wrote on Tue, 10 November 2009 11:06

I have question about Dragon Master. It can be moved on next turn. But it can be moved only to adjacent regions or not?
And when it can be (or has to be) played first?

You use the dragon just like a normal attack except that it only costs one token to take the territory you choose to use it for. It doesn't matter which attack you use it for as long as you still have a spare race token.

This means that like normal attacks it must be adjacent. It is not a flying dragon (notice the picture on the token has little wings and is being lead along the ground).

Notice also that the territory it takes is immune to counter-attacks and will only need one race token to hold it along with the Dragon token.

Bam
      
Ancor
Junior Member
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Re:Dragon Master Wed, 11 November 2009 06:09
Thanks a lot
      
*player38092
Senior Member

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Re:Dragon Master Wed, 11 November 2009 08:43
And, if you make no conquest, your Dragon may not move.
      
ArchAnemone
Junior Member

Posts: 6
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January 2007
Re:F.A.Q: Clarification of Rules Mon, 30 November 2009 20:13
For the Cursed special power, the 3 coins paid go on the Cursed race/power combo the same as the 1 coin paid does for other races, right? It seems like it wouldn't be any fun to play with otherwise, and I guess it fits the rules as written, but it is unclear enough that I've been looking around for a clarification...

Also, for the Leaders expansion, 2 questions:
First, where does the extra coin paid for the leader go? I assume to the bank, but it's unstated.
Second, is there a specific time in the turn sequence when the ransom transaction occurs? It seems like it can be at any time since it's unstated. Is this correct?

Edit: just thought to wonder this... if you got Cursed Dwarves (ugh, but maybe they had lots and lots of coins on them) could you put them in decline on the first turn instead of entering the board with them (which you might not be able to do without help from the Reinforcement Die anyway)?
Edit 2: looking at discussion of a similar question elsewhere in this forum (asking whether it is legal to put Ghouls in decline the same turn they are chosen), it seems the rules show that this is not a valid option (since a First Turn does not present the option of going in decline). Bummer; those Cursed Dwarves would need a lot of coins on them to be worth losing basically 2 turns, but it makes sense. : ) Maybe something should be put in the FAQ to specifically point out that you can't put your race in decline the same turn you choose them?

[Updated on: Mon, 30 November 2009 23:55]

      
player586843
Junior Member

Posts: 4
Registered:
December 2009
SMALL WORLD - CLARIFICATION RULES - PLEASE HELP ME Tue, 15 December 2009 23:15
Hello every one !

Please help me and give me an answear at this quetion.

Sorcerers can win once per round a region by replacing a token opponent in that region with a token sorcers of the box, condition as to exist only one token opponent in that region.

Question, I is the following:

A region can be conquered by replacement opponent in one token sorcers the box if we are in one of these situations???

- In the region is a Halfing token + "hole in the ground" piece

- In the region is a token of a certain race + "dragon master" piece

- In the region is a token of a certain race + HEROIC piece

[Updated on: Tue, 15 December 2009 23:17]

      
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