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Jaykay2010
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Thu, 27 March 2014 12:07
Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 10:50

Jaykay2010 wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 10:27

This is definately not a 'jump-on' expansion for newcomers to the game.

The game designers appear to have come up with another beautiful way of playing the D-day landings imo, that it doesn't cater for, nor is aimed at new players is obviously a decision DoW have made in order to fuel their existing customer base, and good on them ! Smile


I recently introduced a new player to Memoir by playing Market Garden Overlord. He went out and bought the base game. Imagine the impact if your introduction is through taking part in Operation Neptune...

So it is aimed at new players, but indirectly via us 'more experienced' players.


Yes, fair point, I could imagine the 'wow' factor for this, for somebody who is new to the game !!

I guess i was thinking in terms of a 'newbie' making a purchase ..

I wouldn't imagine a new player rushing out to buy this 'off the peg', (certainly not until they had all the required elements to play at least 1 board), but certainly as far as getting someone hooked, I would imagine playing a game of this could certainly be a solid introduction to all things Memoir which might just light the flame ! Smile
      
questioneer
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Thu, 27 March 2014 20:12
From the pics, it looks like there are about 46 barbed wire and about 25 hedgehogs and 25 sandbags needed for Neptune. These are not exact numbers but pretty close from what my eyes can figure out. Maybe add this to the spread sheet- that's about 4 base games worth of material for these- 8 if your picky about the right color.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Thu, 27 March 2014 20:27
Jaykay2010 wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 07:07

Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 10:50

Jaykay2010 wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 10:27

This is definately not a 'jump-on' expansion for newcomers to the game.

The game designers appear to have come up with another beautiful way of playing the D-day landings imo, that it doesn't cater for, nor is aimed at new players is obviously a decision DoW have made in order to fuel their existing customer base, and good on them ! Smile


I recently introduced a new player to Memoir by playing Market Garden Overlord. He went out and bought the base game. Imagine the impact if your introduction is through taking part in Operation Neptune...

So it is aimed at new players, but indirectly via us 'more experienced' players.


Yes, fair point, I could imagine the 'wow' factor for this, for somebody who is new to the game !!

I guess i was thinking in terms of a 'newbie' making a purchase ..

I wouldn't imagine a new player rushing out to buy this 'off the peg', (certainly not until they had all the required elements to play at least 1 board), but certainly as far as getting someone hooked, I would imagine playing a game of this could certainly be a solid introduction to all things Memoir which might just light the flame ! Smile



I think this "WOW" factor you are alluding to is just the point made by Canestri10. The new player is (allegedly) "targeted" by what he refers to as a marketing ploy and not something the new player can immediately purchase and add to his growing base game. As a side-effect, this expansion will inspire the new player to buy new expansions, but will not give him something immediately beneficial. In contrast, selling new battle maps, hex/tile sets, or card sets (terrain, troops, actions etc.) would directly benefit the newbie.

Let me say upfront, that I DON'T think DOW is necessarily using this expansion for that purpose, that is, it wasn't planned that way. I think DOW genuinely wants to commemorate the anniversaries with something grand. Maybe the viewpoint of "marketing ploy" is just the end result of an expansion that is targeted to deeply established fans.

I also want to make it clear that I am not complaining, just trying to interpret the disappointment felt by some.

I think the source of disappointment (at least for me) around this expansion maybe was the expectations that were associated with the anniversary date by fans (not DOW), whether its the Memoir '44 game anniversary or D-Day. At one point around June 2013, I kind of half-jokingly posted about the lack of news on Memoir '44 expansions and lamenting that DOW dropped small expansions like the battle maps. (I say half-jokingly because there really is tons of Memoir '44 material, mostly scenarios and the equipment expansion had come out 6 months earlier). Some of the response (from fans, not DOW) was that 2013 would be a quiet year, but 2014 would more that make up for it, because of the anniversary.

I just don't see this expansion as meeting those built up expectations, especially for the relatively new player. I am somewhat discounting the Equipment Expansion release as meeting those expectations because it was really just a kind-of okay expansion, not a block buster; I still would have preferred a series of battlemaps that introduced the new plastic bits one-by-one and preferred complete Italian and French armies (two more separate expansions that could have taken us well into this year).

The other source of disappointment is that this expansion really does not cater to any of the suggestions for expansions that have been posted for the past 3-5 years. One no-brainer I think would be a return to the battle map series (even without the bonus plastic figures) as that seemed to draw a lot of interest when suggested. But I understand DOW sees things differently and maybe those ideas and the battle maps are just not viable or profitable (Edit: though maybe the DDay expansion will start battle maps up again???)

I'm fine with how the game is now, so I am not really complaining. There are plenty of scenarios still to play and very hard-working generous fans continue to crank out excellent fan-based material. I just thought this might help explain how a new player might see this expansion and trying to interpret Canestri10's post.

I also just wonder why DOW doesn't want to take my money, which could easily have doubled maybe tripled the cost of the equipment pack and the new D-Day expansion by releasing battlemaps, French and Italian expansions. I have 250 other games to play and can spend money on expansions from those that are still supported, so no problem there. But, I might prefer it if DOW was taking my money.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 March 2014 20:31]

      
Burdie Smith
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 00:06
Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 20:27

Jaykay2010 wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 07:07

Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 10:50

Jaykay2010 wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 10:27

This is definately not a 'jump-on' expansion for newcomers to the game.

The game designers appear to have come up with another beautiful way of playing the D-day landings imo, that it doesn't cater for, nor is aimed at new players is obviously a decision DoW have made in order to fuel their existing customer base, and good on them ! Smile


I recently introduced a new player to Memoir by playing Market Garden Overlord. He went out and bought the base game. Imagine the impact if your introduction is through taking part in Operation Neptune...

So it is aimed at new players, but indirectly via us 'more experienced' players.


Yes, fair point, I could imagine the 'wow' factor for this, for somebody who is new to the game !!

I guess i was thinking in terms of a 'newbie' making a purchase ..

I wouldn't imagine a new player rushing out to buy this 'off the peg', (certainly not until they had all the required elements to play at least 1 board), but certainly as far as getting someone hooked, I would imagine playing a game of this could certainly be a solid introduction to all things Memoir which might just light the flame ! Smile



I think this "WOW" factor you are alluding to is just the point made by Canestri10. The new player is (allegedly) "targeted" by what he refers to as a marketing ploy and not something the new player can immediately purchase and add to his growing base game. As a side-effect, this expansion will inspire the new player to buy new expansions, but will not give him something immediately beneficial. In contrast, selling new battle maps, hex/tile sets, or card sets (terrain, troops, actions etc.) would directly benefit the newbie.

Let me say upfront, that I DON'T think DOW is necessarily using this expansion for that purpose, that is, it wasn't planned that way. I think DOW genuinely wants to commemorate the anniversaries with something grand. Maybe the viewpoint of "marketing ploy" is just the end result of an expansion that is targeted to deeply established fans.

I also want to make it clear that I am not complaining, just trying to interpret the disappointment felt by some.

I think the source of disappointment (at least for me) around this expansion maybe was the expectations that were associated with the anniversary date by fans (not DOW), whether its the Memoir '44 game anniversary or D-Day. At one point around June 2013, I kind of half-jokingly posted about the lack of news on Memoir '44 expansions and lamenting that DOW dropped small expansions like the battle maps. (I say half-jokingly because there really is tons of Memoir '44 material, mostly scenarios and the equipment expansion had come out 6 months earlier). Some of the response (from fans, not DOW) was that 2013 would be a quiet year, but 2014 would more that make up for it, because of the anniversary.

I just don't see this expansion as meeting those built up expectations, especially for the relatively new player. I am somewhat discounting the Equipment Expansion release as meeting those expectations because it was really just a kind-of okay expansion, not a block buster; I still would have preferred a series of battlemaps that introduced the new plastic bits one-by-one and preferred complete Italian and French armies (two more separate expansions that could have taken us well into this year).

The other source of disappointment is that this expansion really does not cater to any of the suggestions for expansions that have been posted for the past 3-5 years. One no-brainer I think would be a return to the battle map series (even without the bonus plastic figures) as that seemed to draw a lot of interest when suggested. But I understand DOW sees things differently and maybe those ideas and the battle maps are just not viable or profitable (Edit: though maybe the DDay expansion will start battle maps up again???)

I'm fine with how the game is now, so I am not really complaining. There are plenty of scenarios still to play and very hard-working generous fans continue to crank out excellent fan-based material. I just thought this might help explain how a new player might see this expansion and trying to interpret Canestri10's post.

I also just wonder why DOW doesn't want to take my money, which could easily have doubled maybe tripled the cost of the equipment pack and the new D-Day expansion by releasing battlemaps, French and Italian expansions. I have 250 other games to play and can spend money on expansions from those that are still supported, so no problem there. But, I might prefer it if DOW was taking my money.



I have to say that I agree mostly with your point of view. On the other hand compared to a lot of games, memoir has received tons of expansions until now, way much more than lots of other good games. I used to work for asmodee and I know the sales figures of every item of memoir. Like any other game nothing is beter in sales than the original base game. Memoir is no exception. Lots of expansions made for memoir44 are not that good in sales which is perfectly understandable. It remains a game for a small group of people.
I think dow has done a perfect job until now and I am more than pleased that so many expansions were made until now. I still work in the toy business but for another company and I can assure you that tons of factors play a role in deciding if a game will be made or not.

The only thing I can say to dow if they want to do something more for memoir (and i'm refering to the rather small group of die hard fans) is to start with a sort of kick-starter system. It will be hard to make something else that could get. the interest of the new player aside all the other expansions that exists allready.
The online game nerds some more improvement and I Am prepared tp pay for it and I guess lots of other people too.

To end, thank you DOW for the excellent work and who knows maybe they will listen to the die hard fans.

A big fan

      
Dree
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 00:25

Thank you Birdy for this explanation.

It shows even more Dow memorizes the fallen of 44 and pay's tribute to their roots.
      
Canestri10
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 01:56
Ok let me just clarify that I wasn't trying to demonize DoW or anything, I'm very greatful even if Memoir is the only game from them I have enjoyed due to my obsession with anything WW2. As a huge Memoir fan, to me, this is a very poor expansion like Storm said, this definitely doesn't meet the expectations they have built up. OK well I agree that's its not incredibly simple to make these maps but it is far, far easier than making a base game or any of the army expansions or the equipment pack or the Air pack, by a mile. a) They would have already had the printer they have previously used to do this (no research needed there) b) Richard and his crew would have already amassed a large amount of historical and geographical data to create these scenarios c) no plastic miniatures to be designed, moulded, manufactured along with the specialised packaging. They are basically using things they already have and are just making it into something grand, fancy and for the most part unattainable to someone who is interested in buying a war game but doesn't know anyone who plays it or owns any of the expansions. That's how I started. Nobody showed me the game and what it could do. I was sold on the simplified base game and historical accuracy (plus I'm a huuuuge sucker for miniatures). One way of enriching the base game would be to introduce a naval aspect, introduce fighters and bombers back with new and improved rules (wouldn't take much to improve the existing ones) introduce more armies like the Italians, D-Day spec British and Canadians, French etc.....

I'm just saying it feels as though DoW has hardly paid any attention to this huge bi-anniversary occasion with something fantastic for the hardcore fans and something that would create a stronger brand to generate interest in those who haven't played at the same time. This is not the case here.


But just my opinion.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 March 2014 03:40]

      
questioneer
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 04:41
Quit all the belly aching and be happy- its a great pak. M44 is not going to go away anytime soon, I'm sure they will get to the Italian infantry molds and all the other things we'd like to see in the game in time. After 10yrs. M44 is still hot. Smile
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 17:07
questioneer wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 23:41

Quit all the belly aching and be happy- its a great pak. M44 is not going to go away anytime soon, I'm sure they will get to the Italian infantry molds and all the other things we'd like to see in the game in time. After 10yrs. M44 is still hot. Smile


Also, quit all the unqualified praise...
      
tank commander
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 17:43
One note with this new release, I think this is the perfect time and reason to sell the national figs by themselves. I have three base games (and 2 Med expansions) but if I wished to setup all 6 maps I would fall far short of the infantry needed to do so. Sure, chips could be used but to see the full setup with all that wonderful plastic.....

Offering German, American, Russian, Brit and Japanese army packs for sale would be a welcome addition.

Also, too bad DOW did not have some sort of Preorder system in place. They could list "possible" new expanions (new Battle maps / complete Italian and French Army packs in their own colors / the above mentioned fig packs) and they could judge if the buying public would support these projects by the numer of pledge orders they got.
      
JJAZ
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 18:16
tank commander wrote on Fri, 28 March 2014 17:43

One note with this new release, I think this is the perfect time and reason to sell the national figs by themselves. I have three base games (and 2 Med expansions) but if I wished to setup all 6 maps I would fall far short of the infantry needed to do so. Sure, chips could be used but to see the full setup with all that wonderful plastic.....

Offering German, American, Russian, Brit and Japanese army packs for sale would be a welcome addition.

Also, too bad DOW did not have some sort of Preorder system in place. They could list "possible" new expanions (new Battle maps / complete Italian and French Army packs in their own colors / the above mentioned fig packs) and they could judge if the buying public would support these projects by the numer of pledge orders they got.


Maybe open a link here to see who Buys what on preorder?
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 20:50
tank commander wrote on Fri, 28 March 2014 12:43



Also, too bad DOW did not have some sort of Preorder system in place. They could list "possible" new expanions (new Battle maps / complete Italian and French Army packs in their own colors / the above mentioned fig packs) and they could judge if the buying public would support these projects by the numer of pledge orders they got.


They could use KickStarter for exactly that purpose. There is some up-front effort to launch, but you would essentially set a monetary goal at the point you need to make it profitable. The expansion would move forward if a the pledge goal is reached.

But this would break with DOW's tradition of keeping quiet about future expansions until their ready. Also, maybe for DOW its not feasible for small expansions or maybe they already suspect such expansions would never be profitable.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 20:55
Burdie Smith wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 19:06



*** snip ***


Like any other game nothing is beter in sales than the original base game. Memoir is no exception. Lots of expansions made for memoir44 are not that good in sales which is perfectly understandable. It remains a game for a small group of people.
I think dow has done a perfect job until now and I am more than pleased that so many expansions were made until now. I still work in the toy business but for another company and I can assure you that tons of factors play a role in deciding if a game will be made or not.




So your are saying its the volume of sales of the expansions that is the concern and not necessarily the profit margins? I would think the profit margins on the expansions would be higher if you had enough volume.
      
Burdie Smith
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Fri, 28 March 2014 23:20
Sgt Storm wrote on Fri, 28 March 2014 20:55

Burdie Smith wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 19:06



*** snip ***


Like any other game nothing is beter in sales than the original base game. Memoir is no exception. Lots of expansions made for memoir44 are not that good in sales which is perfectly understandable. It remains a game for a small group of people.
I think dow has done a perfect job until now and I am more than pleased that so many expansions were made until now. I still work in the toy business but for another company and I can assure you that tons of factors play a role in deciding if a game will be made or not.




So your are saying its the volume of sales of the expansions that is the concern and not necessarily the profit margins? I would think the profit margins on the expansions would be higher if you had enough volume.



Absolutely! They will always assure their margin because they determin the consumer sale price! Sometimes the margin will be a little bit more, sometimes a little bit less. In some cases companies miscalculate prices, i've seen this in multiple companies, or prices of products (earth materials) became higher having an effect on the margin. I can be wrong but perhaps that's what happened with the air pack?
In any way the volumes, apart from the base game, are not at all of the same size as ticket to ride and smallworld. So we have to say thank you DOW that you still invest in expansions even though it's not always a 100% in their own interest. They know there's an active community for this game and sales of memoir are still improving but it will never have the same impact as lots of other games. I can be completely wrong but that's my point of view.
To be honest I didn't expect another release for memoir. I thought they had come to an end with the game and I am more than happy that I was wrong.

      
Kaufschtick
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sat, 29 March 2014 01:33
questioneer wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 15:12

From the pics, it looks like there are about 46 barbed wire and about 25 hedgehogs and 25 sandbags needed for Neptune. These are not exact numbers but pretty close from what my eyes can figure out. Maybe add this to the spread sheet- that's about 4 base games worth of material for these- 8 if your picky about the right color.


Ah yes, and here I was thinking I was going to use M44 stuff to supplement my Art of Tactic game materials...looks like all those extra barbwires, entrenchments and hedgehogs from AoT are going to come into play in M44 instead. Smile

questioneer wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 23:41

Quit all the belly aching and be happy- its a great pak.


Agreed. As far as this not being an expansion for new players, why wouldn't you? Just because all the maps can be played as one huge battle doesn't mean that's the only way they can be played. Pretty sure they can all be played seperately. For $35 USD, you can't beat that with a stick.

questioneer wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 23:41

M44 is not going to go away anytime soon, I'm sure they will get to the Italian infantry molds and all the other things we'd like to see in the game in time. After 10yrs. M44 is still hot. Smile


Exactly, I love to see the game grow. I was a hold out on buying the EP, but finally did and glad I finally pulled the trigger on that one too.

As far as Italian infantry figures, I'm already on that one. I've already substituted my spare (40) Axis & Allies Italian infantry figures (along with all the rest of the A&A infantry figs), and painted them up. It's also nice to have my Tide of Iron figs & vehicles all painted up too.

[Updated on: Sat, 29 March 2014 01:52]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sat, 29 March 2014 05:12
Sgt Storm wrote on Fri, 28 March 2014 12:50

tank commander wrote on Fri, 28 March 2014 12:43



Also, too bad DOW did not have some sort of Preorder system in place. They could list "possible" new expanions (new Battle maps / complete Italian and French Army packs in their own colors / the above mentioned fig packs) and they could judge if the buying public would support these projects by the numer of pledge orders they got.


They could use KickStarter for exactly that purpose. There is some up-front effort to launch, but you would essentially set a monetary goal at the point you need to make it profitable. The expansion would move forward if a the pledge goal is reached.

But this would break with DOW's tradition of keeping quiet about future expansions until their ready. Also, maybe for DOW its not feasible for small expansions or maybe they already suspect such expansions would never be profitable.


DoW is not likely to use Kickstarter for 'normal' board games for probably the same reason other large companies don't use Kickstarter. I would guess there are way more fees, plus they have to go through all of the planning before starting the kickstarter campaign.

They would have to pay for artwork, create the expansion, pay the staff to prepare everything, etc without knowing if people actually will fund the project...and if they don't, DoW would have to decide if they are going to print it anyway, making people ask, "Then why did they need our 'help' in the first place?"

Although kickstarter is cool and works for some games and people, it isn't a simple preorder system. At least I don't think...though I'm no expert! Razz
      
rasmussen81
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sat, 29 March 2014 18:03
Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 12:27

~SNIP~
I think the source of disappointment (at least for me) around this expansion maybe was the expectations that were associated with the anniversary date by fans (not DOW), whether its the Memoir '44 game anniversary or D-Day. At one point around June 2013, I kind of half-jokingly posted about the lack of news on Memoir '44 expansions and lamenting that DOW dropped small expansions like the battle maps. (I say half-jokingly because there really is tons of Memoir '44 material, mostly scenarios and the equipment expansion had come out 6 months earlier). Some of the response (from fans, not DOW) was that 2013 would be a quiet year, but 2014 would more that make up for it, because of the anniversary.

I just don't see this expansion as meeting those built up expectations, especially for the relatively new player. I am somewhat discounting the Equipment Expansion release as meeting those expectations because it was really just a kind-of okay expansion, not a block buster; I still would have preferred a series of battlemaps that introduced the new plastic bits one-by-one and preferred complete Italian and French armies (two more separate expansions that could have taken us well into this year).

The other source of disappointment is that this expansion really does not cater to any of the suggestions for expansions that have been posted for the past 3-5 years. One no-brainer I think would be a return to the battle map series (even without the bonus plastic figures) as that seemed to draw a lot of interest when suggested. But I understand DOW sees things differently and maybe those ideas and the battle maps are just not viable or profitable (Edit: though maybe the DDay expansion will start battle maps up again???)

~SNIP~



I think you're right, Sgt Storm, that for some people this expansion isn't what they were expecting. I know I didn't have this layout on my radar, so I can see how someone could be disappointed if they were hoping for a new Army Pack or something.

I believe (as a Memoir '44 fan like yourself) that taken at face value, pretending that there were no expectations of anything else, this expansion stands up as a cool addition to the Memoir '44 line. It is essentially 6 battle maps (like the battle map series that you mentioned), includes some fun new rules and unit types, increases the number of players who can participate in one game, and commemorates the original reason for the game existing.

You are correct that this has a high barrier of entry (much higher than an Army pack that just needs the base game) but I think it makes sense every so often to create something for people who are already invested in the game! We often talk about wanting to use expansions we own...so here's an expansion that allows us to do that. I hope this one is successful so we can see more like it in the future.

And again, you're right that people can 'forget about' this expansion and play normal D-Day scenarios...or even chose a different game to commemorate June 6th. However, this is a very neat expansion and there is a lot of potential for fun from these maps. Add the fact that it's only $35 and I think it's a strong Memoir expansion. I understand not everyone agrees with me, and that's all right, but for those who decide to buy it I think you'll easily get your money's worth!

As always, thanks for your active participation in the forums, Sgt. Storm and I apologize for any offense I may have caused earlier. Smile

[Updated on: Sat, 29 March 2014 18:04]

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sat, 29 March 2014 20:35
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 13:03

Sgt Storm wrote on Thu, 27 March 2014 12:27

~SNIP~
I think the source of disappointment (at least for me) around this expansion maybe was the expectations that were associated with the anniversary date by fans (not DOW), whether its the Memoir '44 game anniversary or D-Day. At one point around June 2013, I kind of half-jokingly posted about the lack of news on Memoir '44 expansions and lamenting that DOW dropped small expansions like the battle maps. (I say half-jokingly because there really is tons of Memoir '44 material, mostly scenarios and the equipment expansion had come out 6 months earlier). Some of the response (from fans, not DOW) was that 2013 would be a quiet year, but 2014 would more that make up for it, because of the anniversary.

I just don't see this expansion as meeting those built up expectations, especially for the relatively new player. I am somewhat discounting the Equipment Expansion release as meeting those expectations because it was really just a kind-of okay expansion, not a block buster; I still would have preferred a series of battlemaps that introduced the new plastic bits one-by-one and preferred complete Italian and French armies (two more separate expansions that could have taken us well into this year).

The other source of disappointment is that this expansion really does not cater to any of the suggestions for expansions that have been posted for the past 3-5 years. One no-brainer I think would be a return to the battle map series (even without the bonus plastic figures) as that seemed to draw a lot of interest when suggested. But I understand DOW sees things differently and maybe those ideas and the battle maps are just not viable or profitable (Edit: though maybe the DDay expansion will start battle maps up again???)

~SNIP~



I think you're right, Sgt Storm, that for some people this expansion isn't what they were expecting. I know I didn't have this layout on my radar, so I can see how someone could be disappointed if they were hoping for a new Army Pack or something.

I believe (as a Memoir '44 fan like yourself) that taken at face value, pretending that there were no expectations of anything else, this expansion stands up as a cool addition to the Memoir '44 line. It is essentially 6 battle maps (like the battle map series that you mentioned), includes some fun new rules and unit types, increases the number of players who can participate in one game, and commemorates the original reason for the game existing.

You are correct that this has a high barrier of entry (much higher than an Army pack that just needs the base game) but I think it makes sense every so often to create something for people who are already invested in the game! We often talk about wanting to use expansions we own...so here's an expansion that allows us to do that. I hope this one is successful so we can see more like it in the future.

And again, you're right that people can 'forget about' this expansion and play normal D-Day scenarios...or even chose a different game to commemorate June 6th. However, this is a very neat expansion and there is a lot of potential for fun from these maps. Add the fact that it's only $35 and I think it's a strong Memoir expansion. I understand not everyone agrees with me, and that's all right, but for those who decide to buy it I think you'll easily get your money's worth!

As always, thanks for your active participation in the forums, Sgt. Storm and I apologize for any offense I may have caused earlier. Smile


Well said. I also hope there are no hard feelings. I respect your opinions and contributions to the community.

No doubt I'll buy the DDay expansion, though I might have to play solo - my family started balking at the larger format scenarios (sigh).
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sat, 29 March 2014 20:49
I agree that is is a cool expansion, though after my initial wow i thought sucks ill never get to play it in its entirety. I hope this anniversary expansion opens the way for another series of overlord maps or even a series of overthrough ones (since these are more attainable to most M44 fans, and is what my gaming group plays most often than not). and a French army pack is long over due.
      
red_zebra
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sat, 29 March 2014 21:48
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 12:33



SNIP

You are correct that this has a high barrier of entry (much higher than an Army pack that just needs the base game) but I think it makes sense every so often to create something for people who are already invested in the game! We often talk about wanting to use expansions we own...so here's an expansion that allows us to do that. I hope this one is successful so we can see more like it in the future.

SNIP




Aipack??? I would have settled for "optional" instead of "not used"

Very Happy
      
sam1812
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sat, 29 March 2014 23:06
You can use Air rules in any scenario, whether or not the rules specify it. But if you're playing one of the multi-board battles, you may want to create a house rule so planes can get to useful parts of the board without taking too many turns. Wink
      
Turboheizer
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 00:17
What would be the real use of new army packs? As soon as we get the French or Italians, someone will start crying for Poles, Greeks or Norwegians, and it will end with the Blue Division, the Czechoslovak Legion or the Vlassov Army, all with their own features and abilities. As I said before, IMO the most pressing need for M44 is an extensive update. I won't start celebrating anything new as long as I can't print any of my maps because the editor is not up to date and cannot deal with Windows 8, to cite only one example. That said, of course I will buy the Neptune maps - not only because I'm a completist, but because they look very interesting and entertaining, even if only played one by one.
      
Kaufschtick
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 06:42
Turboheizer wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 19:17

That said, of course I will buy the Neptune maps - not only because I'm a completist, but because they look very interesting and entertaining, even if only played one by one.


Plus they can be played in pairs and in sets of three I'm pretty sure I read.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 07:57
Kaufschtick wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 21:42

Turboheizer wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 19:17

That said, of course I will buy the Neptune maps - not only because I'm a completist, but because they look very interesting and entertaining, even if only played one by one.


Plus they can be played in pairs and in sets of three I'm pretty sure I read.


You read correct...there are actually 14 different Official setups available if you go all the way up to 6-map battles.

6 single map setups
5 Double map setups
2 Triple map setups
1 Six map setup

Cool
      
tank commander
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 11:38
Turboheizer wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 19:17

What would be the real use of new army packs? As soon as we get the French or Italians, someone will start crying for Poles, Greeks or Norwegians, and it will end with the Blue Division, the Czechoslovak Legion or the Vlassov Army, all with their own features and abilities.


I strongly disagree with here. Leaving two major combatants of WW II out of the full army pack mix is a hole in the Mem 44 line that should be filled. Some may say that as the French only lasted a short while after the "real war" started may not justify such an expanision. But with the amount of official scenarios that cover the 1940 campaign, I think they should not be represented by the "half measure" offered up in the EE by the colorless French infanty. The Italians were active till 1943 and yet they get only artillery.

You suggest that players would not be safisfied with just the French and Italians and would lead to requests (or crying as you put it) to other smaller factions that fought in WW II. What is wrong with players offering up ideas with products they would like to see. I doubt those types of expansions would be offered up anyway.

I understand there are many different paths Memoir '44 can take as far as releases and areas to be addressed. I guess we shall see what direction DOW takes next.
      
stevens
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 13:05
rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 01:57


You read correct...there are actually 14 different Official setups available if you go all the way up to 6-map battles.

6 single map setups
5 Double map setups
2 Triple map setups
1 Six map setup

Cool

From simple math reasoning, it seems that there should be MORE triple map set ups?

EXAMPLE:
Sword - Juno - Gold
Juno - Gold - Omaha
Gold - Omaha - Utah

Omaha - Utah - American Airborne

Are two of these just not official?

[Updated on: Sun, 30 March 2014 13:22]

      
sam1812
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 16:05
Since each board has its own card deck, presumably, one also could play 4-map battles (three options) and 5-map battles (two options), depending on the available number of people.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 16:17
stevens wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 04:05

rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 01:57


You read correct...there are actually 14 different Official setups available if you go all the way up to 6-map battles.

6 single map setups
5 Double map setups
2 Triple map setups
1 Six map setup

Cool

From simple math reasoning, it seems that there should be MORE triple map set ups?

EXAMPLE:
Sword - Juno - Gold
Juno - Gold - Omaha
Gold - Omaha - Utah

Omaha - Utah - American Airborne

Are two of these just not official?



Correct. The Triple Map combos that are suggested in the rules are only based on the nations. So the Commonwealth landings (Sword-Juno-Gold) and American Landings (Omaha-Utah-Airborne). Players could certainly combine the other sets but they aren't 'Official Combinations'.

I suspect people won't care about the official part and will play in any format they feel like, which is nice. Very Happy

sam1812 wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 07:05

Since each board has its own card deck, presumably, one also could play 4-map battles (three options) and 5-map battles (two options), depending on the available number of people.


Yep, the 4 and 5-map combinations are not official but could certainly be used!

Taking into account all of the different possible Official and optional combinations, people actually have 21 (!) possible maps to play, when they get this expansion!! Pretty cool. Cool

Edit for clarity:

Single Maps

Sword
Juno
Gold
Omaha
Utah
Airborne



Double Maps

Sword/Juno
Juno/Gold
Gold/Omaha
Omaha/Utah
Utah/Airborne



Triple Maps

Sword/Juno/Gold
Juno/Gold/Omaha
Gold/Omaha/Utah
Omaha/Utah/Airborne


Four-Map Setups

Sword/Juno/Gold/Omaha
Juno/Gold/Omaha/Utah
Gold/Omaha/Utah/Airborne


Five-Map Setup

Sword/Juno/Gold/Omaha/Utah
Juno/Gold/Omaha/Utah/Airborne


Six-Map Setup

Sword/Juno/Gold/Omaha/Utah/Airborne

[Updated on: Sun, 30 March 2014 16:40]

      
michelecannone
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Sun, 30 March 2014 17:49
SJGOUA! SJGOUA! SJGOUA! SJGOUA! SJGOUA!S JGOUA!

Gimme an S
Gimme a J
Gimme a G
Gimme an O
Gimme an U
Gimme an A


SJGOUA! Wink


      
Kaufschtick
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  Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Mon, 31 March 2014 06:20
rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 10:17

Taking into account all of the different possible Official and optional combinations, people actually have 21 (!) possible maps to play, when they get this expansion!! Pretty cool. Cool



Damn right its pretty cool! Cool

And for $35 USD, that's a better deal than the original battle map series! Very Happy

[Updated on: Mon, 31 March 2014 17:43]

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Mon, 31 March 2014 18:59
Kaufschtick wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 00:20

rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 10:17

Taking into account all of the different possible Official and optional combinations, people actually have 21 (!) possible maps to play, when they get this expansion!! Pretty cool. Cool



Damn right its pretty cool! Cool

And for $35 USD, that's a better deal than the original battle map series! Very Happy


That's debatable. For $15 we got two overlord maps (with limited setup requirements, <cough>) some plastic figures and usually some bonus scenarios. This deal is about even IMO (given the limited applicability of these scenarios), certainly not significantly better.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Mon, 31 March 2014 21:52
Sgt Storm wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 09:59

Kaufschtick wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 00:20

rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 10:17

Taking into account all of the different possible Official and optional combinations, people actually have 21 (!) possible maps to play, when they get this expansion!! Pretty cool. Cool



Damn right its pretty cool! Cool

And for $35 USD, that's a better deal than the original battle map series! Very Happy


That's debatable. For $15 we got two overlord maps (with limited setup requirements, <cough>) some plastic figures and usually some bonus scenarios. This deal is about even IMO (given the limited applicability of these scenarios), certainly not significantly better.


In the end it's totally up to each person to decide if it's worth their money. Whether $35 for 21 maps or $15 for 4-6 maps, it all comes down to what something is worth for each of us.

If we're looking at pure value per map...then with the D-Day expansion you are paying $1.66 per map (or $2.50 if you only play Official setups). With the Battle Map scenarios you were paying somewhere from $2.50 - $3.75 per map, and all but two of the maps in the Battle maps series were standard size. If you only count the pre-printed part of the expansion (to compare Apples to Apples), then we were paying $7.50 per map! So looking at pure money, you're getting a better value for your buck for this expansion. Very Happy

Now, whether you want to pay or not is totally up to each person. Cool

[Updated on: Mon, 31 March 2014 22:04]

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Tue, 01 April 2014 07:09
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 15:52

Sgt Storm wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 09:59

Kaufschtick wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 00:20

rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 10:17

Taking into account all of the different possible Official and optional combinations, people actually have 21 (!) possible maps to play, when they get this expansion!! Pretty cool. Cool



Damn right its pretty cool! Cool

And for $35 USD, that's a better deal than the original battle map series! Very Happy


That's debatable. For $15 we got two overlord maps (with limited setup requirements, <cough>) some plastic figures and usually some bonus scenarios. This deal is about even IMO (given the limited applicability of these scenarios), certainly not significantly better.


In the end it's totally up to each person to decide if it's worth their money. Whether $35 for 21 maps or $15 for 4-6 maps, it all comes down to what something is worth for each of us.

If we're looking at pure value per map...then with the D-Day expansion you are paying $1.66 per map (or $2.50 if you only play Official setups). With the Battle Map scenarios you were paying somewhere from $2.50 - $3.75 per map, and all but two of the maps in the Battle maps series were standard size. If you only count the pre-printed part of the expansion (to compare Apples to Apples), then we were paying $7.50 per map! So looking at pure money, you're getting a better value for your buck for this expansion. Very Happy

Now, whether you want to pay or not is totally up to each person. Cool


We'll I totally disagree that I will be receiving 22 maps. I'll be getting 6 maps and I might put them together in some limited combinations. Anyway it's a matter of opinion and preference.

I think the cost and benefits are about equal between battle maps and DDay. That's not a bad thing at all. Remember, the plastic figures were likely a significant cost to produce and I just love miniatures, so for me personally, battle maps are pretty attractive at such a low cost. I think just about anyone could cough up $15 bucks and not care that much. Now $35 is a little bit different not withstanding the additional resources you might need to purchase to feel you can really enjoy it to the max. But it's not too expensive either.
      
Kelly's Hero
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Tue, 01 April 2014 21:24
red_zebra wrote on Fri, 21 March 2014 17:59



With 3 such decks we could play all the landing, with up to 24 players, or down to 6 players. (It is going to be a long day!).





Laughing

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/longest-day-_9884.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 01 April 2014 21:26]

      
red_zebra
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Mon, 14 April 2014 22:04
From the French forum:

By Mastergo
Une infanterie incorporée dans un blindé
Un blindé dans une unité d'infanterie

By Antoine:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/e549dc6f-1083-4675-a23c-2ca31adf82d8.jpg

Supported Infantry : Infantry unit with a Tank Figure
Supported Armor : Armor unit with an Infantry Figure
More or less Confused

Action 34 - Air Superiority (or Supremacy?) : For the Allies
Action 35 - Off Board (Map?) Artillery Support : For the Allies
      
rasmussen81
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Mon, 14 April 2014 22:57
red_zebra wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 13:04

From the French forum:

By Mastergo
Une infanterie incorporée dans un blindé
Un blindé dans une unité d'infanterie

By Antoine:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/e549dc6f-1083-4675-a23c-2ca31adf82d8.jpg

Supported Infantry : Infantry unit with a Tank Figure
Supported Armor : Armor unit with an Infantry Figure
More or less Confused

Action 34 - Air Superiority (or Supremacy?) : For the Allies
Action 35 - Off Board (Map?) Artillery Support : For the Allies



Indeed, those are some of the new rules. They will be available in full when the rules are posted. Smile

The Supported Infantry and Supported Armor units don't require new figures (as some people have wondered) because they combine Infantry and Armor figures to make their unit.

The Actions are a nice addition that I think lots of scenario creators will enjoy using in other battles.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Tue, 15 April 2014 10:30
red_zebra wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 21:04



By Antoine:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/e549dc6f-1083-4675-a23c-2ca31adf82d8.jpg


"d'artillerie hors-carte" would that be German horse-drawn artillery or is my French worse than I thought? Wink
      
Antoi
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Tue, 15 April 2014 11:04
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 22:57



The Supported Infantry and Supported Armor units don't require new figures (as some people have wondered) because they combine Infantry and Armor figures to make their unit.

The Actions are a nice addition that I think lots of scenario creators will enjoy using in other battles.


I wonder how they work Smile
Is that a unit that combine the strength of Armor and Infantry?
So move 3 and battle and then fire 3-3-3 but only has to reduce one 1 in close combat because of the infantry?

But will they also be hit with infantry and armor symbol when attacked.... Rolling Eyes
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Tue, 15 April 2014 18:26
Antoi wrote on Tue, 15 April 2014 05:04

rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 April 2014 22:57



The Supported Infantry and Supported Armor units don't require new figures (as some people have wondered) because they combine Infantry and Armor figures to make their unit.

The Actions are a nice addition that I think lots of scenario creators will enjoy using in other battles.


I wonder how they work Smile
Is that a unit that combine the strength of Armor and Infantry?
So move 3 and battle and then fire 3-3-3 but only has to reduce one 1 in close combat because of the infantry?

But will they also be hit with infantry and armor symbol when attacked.... Rolling Eyes


Its probably not worth speculating, but I would think an armor unit supported by infantry might have an easier time assaulting say a town or a forest. An infantry unit supported by armor, hmm, I don't know, maybe can remove wire etc. That is, maybe its terrain support not firepower.
      
Antoi
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Tue, 15 April 2014 19:13
Laughing Laughing

It's better to wait until they releas the rules and not speculate about it. I thought the same as you did but started speculating about it anyway Cool
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:D-Day Landings: An Inside Look! Tue, 15 April 2014 20:19
Antoi wrote on Tue, 15 April 2014 13:13

Laughing Laughing

It's better to wait until they releas the rules and not speculate about it. I thought the same as you did but started speculating about it anyway Cool


Oh I didn't mean any criticism. I started speculating as well as you can see. It will be interesting to see what the rules are.
      
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